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Brayden
Dodge Dakota
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9/11/2006
23:04:10
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 Subject: throttle body spacers
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I was wondering if anyone knew if a 1992 5.2L Magnum throttle body spacer for a Dakota would work on a 1991 L.A 318 engine. I heard that the Magnums have a different throttle body then the L.A's but is this true?
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.boB
Dodge Dakota
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9/12/2006
00:57:59
|  RE: throttle body spacers
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Message:
Well, it doesn't work on any engine. But it won't fit. The throttle bodies are differant.
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Juan Mo Time
Dodge Dakota
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9/12/2006
03:18:49
| RE: throttle body spacers
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Message:
1. It don't work.
2. It's a gimmick.
3. Save your money for one of them Tornado thingies.
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N56629
Dodge Dakota
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9/12/2006
07:00:52
| RE: throttle body spacers
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TBI is a bit different and it may have some effect on performance. You still have a two bbl and it is quite possible that it will fit. You will just have to do a bit of research. There may someone here that actually has experience with that set up.
Btw, people that say it doesn't work on "any engine" don't know what they are talking about and just haven't been around much.
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.boB
Dodge Dakota
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9/13/2006
17:26:56
| RE: throttle body spacers
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>> Btw, people that say it doesn't work on "any engine" don't know what they are talking about and just haven't been around much. <<
Got anything to back that up?
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Mopar318
GenII
9/13/2006
18:15:57
| RE: throttle body spacers
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An intake design such as a LS1 they do work. And I have seen dyno results to back it up.
1/4 mile: 13.9 @ 101 on street tires.
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N56629
Dodge Dakota
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9/13/2006
21:01:46
| RE: throttle body spacers
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Sure, bob, it's well established fact that they work well on many carbed applications. Single and dual plane manifolds are very different than what you find on the magnum engines. Increasing the volume of the plenum can help on some engines. The fact that they worked so well on many older engines is the very reason they are still around. People tend to think that just because something works so well in one application that it would also be a good idea if they did it too.
We tend to do just the opposite with the keggers. We shorten the runners and decrease the volume. Think about this, the M1 virtually has a throttle body spacer built into it. If it would perform better without the tall pedestal that a two bbl sits on most people would buy the 4bbl. version and use an adapter plate to keep it short. Some people even want to reduce the volume of the M1 and some have made tb spacers for 4bbl. applications. It's all about fine tuning for a specific applications. The kegger is just about the only style manifold that most everyone agrees can not possibly benefit from more volume, hence that tb spacer does not work.
Now unless you have a 318 with tbi and can say for certain that it doesn't work I'll have to stick by my contention that it may work. You simply can't state that it won't work on any engine.
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.boB
Dodge Dakota
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9/14/2006
00:13:03
| RE: throttle body spacers
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Message:
This is EFI and throttle bodies, not a carb. Completely differant set of parameters and operation. Even a central injection system doesn't really work on a vacume signal. You can't compare a carb plenum to a TB spacer, doesn't work.
I'm a car guy, and a scientist. I want to see proof before I'll shell out a single penny; Dyno sheet, ET, lap time, G meter, whatever. I want to see proof. In theory, many things will work. In practice, they don't. If I ever find actual proof of actual enhancement of almost any parameter, I'll buy two. But until then, they don't work.
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N56629
Dodge Dakota
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9/14/2006
06:33:42
| RE: throttle body spacers
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"This is EFI and throttle bodies, not a carb."
This is throttle body injection, not port fuel injection which is what you most likely have.
"You can't compare a carb plenum to a TB spacer, doesn't work."
Of course you can when you are talking about changing the volume of the plenum. If I'm not mistaken the tbi manifold is very much like the carb manifold and afaik could be the same one used with a carb. Then again maybe you don't think volume or runner length make any difference. A spacer effectively changes both of these.
"I'm a car guy, and a scientist. I want to see proof before I'll shell out a single penny"
Oh great, a scientist that doesn't want to be the first at anything. Give me a break, spacers can be very cheap. It's not like I'm talking about one of those fancy helical thingies.
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.boB
Dodge Dakota
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9/15/2006
00:12:48
| RE: throttle body spacers
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Message:
No, you really can't compare the two. Sure, plenum volume makes a differance, but not like on a carb. A carb runs off a vacuum signal, TB doesn't - that's one of the reasons they work better. It's a differant principle.
Here's the bottom line - They don't work. Many people have tested them, and there's no improvement. The people who make them don't claim a power increase. They don't work.
As for a "scientist who doesn't want to be the first at anything", you're wrong again. I've been the first to try a lot of things that are now copied by others. But throwing good money after bad isn't one of them.
If it was a mixed bag of success (like a 180* thermostat), I'd spend the money and give it a try, they are cheap. But it's not a mixed bag. Nobody has ever proven a single performance increase with one of these. Why should I spend the time and money to add my name to that list?
You keep insisting they "could". If you really think that's true, prove it! You could be the first one to make it work. Spend your time and money and see what happens. Like I said before, if you prove any performance increase, I'll buy two.
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ToddSails
Dodge Dakota
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9/15/2006
21:10:55
|  RE: throttle body spacers
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Mopar 318,
Taking your post out of context, one wouldn't have known, that your Truck is BLOWN!!
(SuperCharger)
It is a nice setup.
aka TexasTodd
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N56629
Dodge Dakota
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9/15/2006
21:30:49
| RE: throttle body spacers
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Message:
"You keep insisting they "could". If you really think that's true, prove it!"
You are catagorically stating that it won't work and I'm admitting that I don't know. You can't site a single person that has tried and neither can I. At least I'm leaving room for doubt because I haven't tried it.
You keep pointing out the differences between carbs and injection but you ignore the similarities between throttle body injection and carbs. Namely the fuel is introduced through a venturi just like a carburator and from that point on everything is the same. With port fuel injection, which is what you have and are most likely basing all of your opinion, is in fact entirely different than either tbi or carb.
"Like I said before, if you prove any performance increase, I'll buy two."
Do you or do you not have TBI? If you don't why in the world would you "buy two" even if I were to prove it works with TBI?
Obviously I am not going to convert my port fuel injection system to antiquated tbi system just to prove a point. You are the one that said "Many people have tested them," so how about pointing us in the direction of just a couple so that we can draw our own conclusion. I can find plenty of people with port fuel injection to support the claim that spacers have no effect.
Ok, I'll settle for even one credible source.
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Mao
Dodge Dakota
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10/17/2006
22:03:09
| RE: throttle body spacers
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Message:
so shoul i return my airaid tb spacer...?
I have the ractive intake, ss blaster coil from MSD and the msd wires also.....and the only diff is that now i can hear the hissle from the air in the intake...thats all.should I return it?
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Kowalski
GenIII
10/18/2006
16:49:33
| RE: throttle body spacers
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Message:
Unless you really like the whistle...
Lead, follow, or get out of the way
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CluCool
Dodge Dakota
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10/18/2006
19:25:19
| RE: throttle body spacers
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Message:
I personaly like the whistle. But hey what ever gets your kicks man. I dont think I'll ever get ride of the old "TB Spacer" I have had it for like 2 years now and I would miss the Hiss sound if I took it off. I call it my "Viper Hiss"!
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Mao
Dodge Dakota
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10/18/2006
21:20:57
| RE: throttle body spacers
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Message:
ok..I just took off the TB spacer...no more whistle..but its ok..I rather use that cash for a new exhaust..!!!
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Dakota5.2
Dodge Dakota
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10/19/2006
13:15:31
| RE: throttle body spacers ... Time to stir the pot
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I'm going to go out on a limb and say that with the stock setup the tb spacer doesn't make a noticeable.
Now, on a modified engine, I think you would notice and increase in either HP ot Torque.
My advice for the TBI users, Swap to a carb, Period!
I'm off to go ask the Wizard for proof!
Dakota5.2
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Super bee
GenI
10/22/2006
22:37:19
| RE: throttle body spacers
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Message:
several years back speedtweaks.com did a dyno run with and without, i beleive they lost HP with the spacer
1990 sport RC SB, 1995 318drivetrain, 3.92 gears (came with truck) 95 dash/steering wheel, hearthrob exhaust, headers, cutout after y-pipe, necessary electric fan add-a-leafs, 30x9.5 mud tires, cranked T-bars, AR 39 15x8 rims, grill guard, roll bars
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N56629
Dodge Dakota
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10/23/2006
06:42:45
| RE: throttle body spacers
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Message:
"My advice for the TBI users, Swap to a carb, Period! "
Then they might be right back to using a spacer again. That doesn't really solve the issue of whether or not a spacer works with TBI.
"several years back speedtweaks.com did a dyno run with and without, i beleive they lost HP with the spacer"
Tested it on a truck with port fuel injection, right?
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2000 Dak
Dodge Dakota
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10/23/2006
09:57:29
| RE: throttle body spacers
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Message:
The fact that the makers of the spacer can.t provide proof of a improvement, speaks volumes! Its another urban legend..
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Super bee
GenI
10/23/2006
11:03:04
| RE: throttle body spacers
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Message:
yes on a MPFI
i can see it working on a carb or TBI engine
but they are pretty few now adays, lots of them are in junk yards now
they only made dakotas with them for 4 years
but yes, a TB spacer should in theory improve a TBI
1990 sport RC SB, 1995 318drivetrain, 3.92 gears (came with truck) 95 dash/steering wheel, hearthrob exhaust, headers, cutout after y-pipe, necessary electric fan add-a-leafs, 30x9.5 mud tires, cranked T-bars, AR 39 15x8 rims, grill guard, roll bars
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