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Shatto
Dodge Dakota
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5/20/2006
16:43:38
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 Subject: Independant Test of Motor Oil
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Say we wanted to compare oils and we wanted to use methodology that was consistant and the results would be fair.
There are Seven tests that can be used to compare oil performance;
1.The Thin-Film Oxygen Uptake Test (TFOUT) measures the oxydation stability of engine oils.
2.The High Temperature/High Shear Test (HTHS) measures a lubricant's viscosity under severe operating conditions.
3.The NOACK Volatility Test measures evaporation loss of oils in high temperature service.
4.Pour Point indicates the lowest temperature at which a fluid will flow.
5.Total Base Number (TBN) is the measurement of a lubricant's reserve alkalinity for combating acids.
6.The Cold Cranking Simulator Test (CCS) indicates the degree to which a lubricant can impact cold weather starting.
7.The Four-Ball Wear Test evaluates the protection provided by engine oil under conditions of pressure and sliding motion.
Could we assume that, as long as the same test was used on each oil, it wouldn't matter who did the test or where it was performed?
Scientific laboratories the world over use exactly this process to verify each others work. In fact, this is how theory becomes fact, duplication.
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Huggins
Dodge Dakota
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5/20/2006
19:13:09
|  RE: Independant Test of Motor Oil
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Yes, theoretically if the test were performed the same as one another, then yes I would like to think the results would be correct... However there is always the chance of number "fudging" if say the lab was paid off or something to that nature... Of course this would have to be done at all the labs in which the test were run...
From my own personal experiance "I'm sure I'll get some kind of bashing for this, but every once and a while you just have to stand up for something right", I have found amsoil to be the best oil of choice, even compared to Mobil 1's new 15,000 mile formula... By this I mean I had 20,000 miles on my trucks oil "amsoil 0-30" durring it's oil change and was still getting the same fuel mileage, but in my mustang with the 5-30 mobil 1 15,000 mile formula my fuel mileage steadily decreased after the 10,000 mile mark until I had lost 1.5 mpg at 13,000 miles so I just went ahead and changed it due to the fact that I was driving on average 450 to 500 miles per week and fuel prices were killing me... But anyhow just thought I'de throw that one in to the mix for the bashers and shatto, I also understand that you've got 500,000 miles on your truck with the amsoil 0-30, so it's got to be pretty good... Oh and my truck had the dual bypass oil filtering system, the mustang however does not, but I don't think that would cause the 10,000 mile difference in the two oils...
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Mobil 1
Dodge Dakota
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5/20/2006
22:06:10
| RE: Independant Test of Motor Oil
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I get much better mileage with Mobil 1 than I got with the much more expensive amsoil. Nothing beats personal experience.
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toolfan
GenIII
5/22/2006
19:07:21
|  RE: Independant Test of Motor Oil
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just switched to Mobil 1 and the well trusted and cheap in price "fram oil filter"! i think i will go 30k without changing my oil, see how black i can get it!
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Huggins
Dodge Dakota
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5/22/2006
22:29:09
|  RE: Independant Test of Motor Oil
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For those who don't know, the amsoil dual bypass system is rated for 35,000 mile oil change intervals with the 0-30 amsoil oil...
Sorry Shatto, it looks as if all I've done is start a bashing forum://
Toolfan, you might as well go ahead and order a new engine for your truck as well if your going to do the 30,000 interval with the fram filter and mobil oil... Of course I know you didn't actually mean it, but just incase...
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T-Man
Dodge Dakota
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5/22/2006
23:21:32
|  RE: Independant Test of Motor Oil
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OMG - another oil related thread. Only a matter of time before the amsoil guy comes in bashing the competition & praising his product!!!
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Get real
Dodge Dakota
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5/23/2006
02:18:00
| RE: Independant Test of Motor Oil
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Dont need the amsoil man when you have the amsoil whore on here, right shatto????
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shatto
Dodge Dakota
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5/23/2006
02:57:38
| RE: Independant Test of Motor Oil
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Astonishing!
Absolutely astonishing!
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Mobil 1
Dodge Dakota
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5/23/2006
06:26:20
| RE: Independant Test of Motor Oil
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Why do the majority of NASCAR use Mobil 1 rather than amsoil?
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shatto
Dodge Dakota
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5/23/2006
09:47:55
| RE: Independant Test of Motor Oil
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Mobil 1
Why do the majority of NASCAR use the same chassis? the same exhaust? The same, you get the idea?
NASCAR, like the NFL, NBA, Motocross, Pro Wrestling and Baseball, is a Franchise, all owned by and following the dictates of the owner. They market a product, entertainment.
It will be interesting to see Toyota enter NSACAR and not be allowed to use Toyota parts. Example; Toyota doesn't make solid rear axle sedans.
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Mobil 1
Dodge Dakota
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5/23/2006
10:42:46
| RE: Independant Test of Motor Oil
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"Why do the majority of NASCAR use the same chassis? the same exhaust? The same, you get the idea?"
Are you saying that they all use the best parts? Isn't that like asking why all the best Top Fuel cars use the same engine? There are many engines, chassis, etc. that are tops in their catagory and that's what they all use.
I seriously doubt that anyone racing in NASCAR would use anything less than the best lubrication for their cars. Would you risk that kind of money on an inferior product for the sake of entertaining the crowd?
Hey, I hear even the amsoil car uses Mobil 1.
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shatto
Dodge Dakota
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5/23/2006
11:04:08
| RE: Independant Test of Motor Oil
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No, Mobil 1, they use AGIP.
Ever wonder why Andy Granatilli's turbine powered car was removed from Indy racing?
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Mobil 1
Dodge Dakota
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5/23/2006
13:18:29
| RE: Independant Test of Motor Oil
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Interesting trivia, but I still want to know why more racers use Mobil 1 than amsoil. No matter how much a sponser contributes, if you can't win with their product sooner or later it will fall by the wayside.
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CheapAss
Dodge Dakota
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5/23/2006
14:17:28
| RE: Independant Test of Motor Oil
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Because it's cheaper oil, and it's all about the bottom line.
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Huggins
Dodge Dakota
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5/23/2006
22:54:53
|  RE: Independant Test of Motor Oil
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The race teams use what oil is issued to them... Not all cars use Mobil 1!!! If the car is an oil sponsored car, it uses that oil and just because you see a Mobil 1 bottle doesn't mean that it's actually Mobil 1 oil coming out of it... Not only that, but most teams "big teams" are given free oil, so they can be seen pouring it into their engines, so idiots will see it and go buy it... I hear it's good for sales:)) Plus ussually when the car has a sponsorship on it, the team is required to use it...
Trust me I worked in a show-car garage that specialized in "similators" for nascar teams and fans... I've reassembled some of the older engines from previous race's, so they could drive the simulator cars around... The teams are going to use what's free, especially when the dry sump systems require 18 quarts of the oil... Just think about it, $5 - $10 per quart, that gets expensive and teams would much rather spend the money else where... Especially the smaller teams... Whether or not you know it, these cars burn on average 4-5 quarts of oil per race and the oil and engine both are pretty much junked every race anyway, unless your a small team, then you may run the engine 2 or 3 races... Back when they had qualifying engines they would use tripple 0 weight oil for less internal drag along with a special light weight engine just for qualifying... Still not quite sure about the "tripple" part, so don't ask... I originally thought there were only two weights to oil, not 3 or 4 like some of these teams were using...
"I seriously doubt that anyone racing in NASCAR would use anything less than the best lubrication for their cars. Would you risk that kind of money on an inferior product for the sake of entertaining the crowd?" --- Going to this reply, did you know that some teams if they know their not going to do too good or rather finish good will wreck on purpose so their car will have a "spotlight" time on tv... This is so the sponsors on the side of the car can be seen... Heck all Nascar is about is sponsors and money... It's not been "truly" about who can win in years...
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Henry Stevens
Dodge Dakota
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5/24/2006
05:23:11
| RE: Independant Test of Motor Oil
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Huggins, what kind of idiot are you? "intentionally" wrecking their car to show the sponsor names? How long would you support a team that does this? How many drivers risk their life "intentionally" wrecking at speeds around 150-200 to show a sponsor name? your post sounded real intelligent till you made that statement.
Iv'e worked around nascar for the past 12 years as a fabricator for a few different teams located in North Carolina, and never have I heard of something more stupid than intentionally wrecking to give air time to sponsors. Ask around next time before you make such stupid remarks as the one you made. Or at least, state that its your opinion. Sponsors on race cars are not seen unless their on the track..........................................
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Mobil 1
Dodge Dakota
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5/24/2006
06:39:16
| RE: Independant Test of Motor Oil
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" If the car is an oil sponsored car, it uses that oil and just because you see a Mobil 1 bottle doesn't mean that it's actually Mobil 1 oil coming out of it."
"Plus ussually when the car has a sponsorship on it, the team is required to use it... "
Does this make sense? Required to use it but don't use it?
"so they can be seen pouring it into their engines, so idiots will see it and go buy it"
More nonsense. How many of you can see what kind of oil the pit crew is putting in the engine. What idiot crew would pure any kind of oil out of a slow assed one quart bottle hoping that some fan 100 yards away would see it.
Huggins, you come across as somewhat less than convincing or even knowlegable.
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Huggins
Dodge Dakota
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5/24/2006
13:30:03
| RE: Independant Test of Motor Oil
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Henry, I was referring to the smaller teams that barely get sponsorship in the first place... AND they don't wreck at the 150 - 200 mph speed... Going back to this statement, I heard it from the "old timers" that have been Nascar since the 80's... Whether or not it is true is another thing... Sponsorship name is everything... Do you think that the drivers when they get to winners circle drink coca cola with the name turned to where the viewers can see it for nothing... How many thousand of dollars do they get for every sip they take???
Mobil 1 after reading that I too agree, it didn't look right... Maybe I should make myself more clear... I was referring to if the team had a sponsorship like penzoil they may pour the oil out and fill the bottle up with a different oil... However if the oil sponsor ever does an oil analysis to make sure they are using their oil and find out that they have been switching oils, then they will lose the sponsorship, so most teams actually use the oil that the sponsorship provides... They would switch the oils in the 90's when sponsorships didn't keep tabs on things that much "referring to oil analysis only here"... As far as people not being able to see it... Do you not think that people are watching with bonoculars or something to that matter to see what their favorite team is using so they can go home and use the very same thing... Just look at how sales go up with any product that is sold with the nascar logo or at any race for that matter... Besides the tv crews are always around the pits or garages... Do you not think that the viewers at home won't see these things???
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Obio3
Dodge Dakota
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5/24/2006
16:32:32
| RE: Independant Test of Motor Oil
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Couple or things i disagree with . How many think IF amsoil was being substituted for the advertised oil, that AMSOIL wouldn't jump all over the free advertisment. They would be plastering it everywhere. And about testing to see what oil is in there . I say HA HA HA . Everything I have heard, been told and read says.... If you lost a new engine and the dealer did do a test on the oil. he can determine what metals and dirt are in it and antifreeze if present. additives,SNAKE OIL, MAYBE, but no way can he determine what brand oil you have in your engine unless you tell them. This brings up a much argued issue lol. Shows how little if any differance there is in oils. Now don't jump me. I'm just quoting.
So many problems .... So little time
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Huggins
Dodge Dakota
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5/24/2006
19:27:02
| RE: Independant Test of Motor Oil
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As you stated... Additives is how they can tell what kind of oil you are using... Every oil has it's own unique additive package, kinda like fingerprints... ALL they have to do is compare...
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Huggins
Dodge Dakota
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5/24/2006
19:43:34
| RE: Independant Test of Motor Oil
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Oh and I never once stated that they were pouring out the original oil and using amsoil... Amsoil has more additive packages for longevity and cleanlyness... The engine guys could really care less about this considering it gets burnt and thrown away every race... They would rather use oils specified or rather meant just for high rpm engines for simple friction and heat reduction... In other words oils that would never hold up out on the street or in regular "everyday" drivers...
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