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Dave_Dakota
Dodge Dakota
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8/15/2005
16:14:23
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 Subject: ? Why 180 TStat ? What Temp is Normal?
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I see people talking about 180 degree Temp Stats.
What is the temp that the stock TStat opens up at?
Thanks Guys.
DD
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bykerdude59
Dodge Dakota
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8/15/2005
18:21:32
| RE: ? Why 180 TStat ? What Temp is Normal?
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195 is the stock temp range. Good for EPA but not so much for power. The 180 t-stat is fine for EPA but keeps the motor a bit cooler (cooler motors run better..to a point.
Just don't install a 160 t-stat, I hear that is not a good idea.
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gen1dak
Dodge Dakota
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8/15/2005
20:45:23
| RE: ? Why 180 TStat ? What Temp is Normal?
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The 160 stat keeps the engine too cool, and this makes the computer think the engine is still warming up.....anyway, it won't run as well as it should. The 180 helps cut down on potential detonation, especially when used with certain mods, especially chips that increase ignition advance, as well as what '59 was saying about better power.
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.boB
Dodge Dakota
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8/16/2005
00:54:42
| RE: ? Why 180 TStat ? What Temp is Normal?
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The "common wisdom" is that a lower engine coolant temp will make more power. This may or may not be true. I'v seen no data to support that. It's a good theory, and may actually be true.
I tried it on my 2001 5.9 a couple of years ago. Didn't work well. Since it didn't fully warm up, the computer kept it in cold enrichment mode all the time. Idle quality was poor, performance didn't change, and it got even worse fuel mileage (hard to imagine, but true!) So I put the stock one back in, and all was well. Others say they have done it without any problems, but it didn't work for my truck.
Then I used a programmer on the stock computer. When it was hot, or when I was towing, I had to use premium fuel to prevent detonation; too much timing. So I tried the 180* thermostat again. The new computer allows for this. The truck runs much better in those conditions when the heads are cooler. More power? Don't think so. But no detonation.
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jsst
Dodge Dakota
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8/16/2005
01:03:45
| RE: ? Why 180 TStat ? What Temp is Normal?
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I just installed a 180stat(factory is 195 degrees) on my 4.7 last friday. Throttle response is much better, and a/c is noticeably colder (I live in sw florida). The needle on my temp gauge stays just above the second mark. Easy cheap mod, well worth it.
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Big Ed
Dodge Dakota
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8/16/2005
07:02:40
| RE: ? Why 180 TStat ? What Temp is Normal?
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for jsst, your A/C is cooler with a 180 t'stat???? No way, no connection at all with the engine coolant. The A/C system is totally seperate from the engine coolant. Its really imposible for that to be true.
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crow318
Dodge Dakota
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8/16/2005
09:32:20
| RE: ? Why 180 TStat ? What Temp is Normal?
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Big Ed,
You shouldn't make such statements so quickly. Even though the systems are separate, there are lots of interactions.
1 - The heater core is in the same ductwork as the A/C
2 - The condenser is touching or almost touching the radiator.
3 - Lower engine running temp should = lower underhood temps
And there could be even more reasons. It is entirely possible for the A/C to blow a little colder.
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Joe X
Dodge Dakota
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8/16/2005
14:24:28
| RE: ? Why 180 TStat ? What Temp is Normal?
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Also, the auto trans cooler is in the radiator.
That'll keep the trans a wee bit cooler, too.
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Big Ed
Dodge Dakota
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8/16/2005
17:06:14
| RE: ? Why 180 TStat ? What Temp is Normal?
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well crow, you may have one valid point in that the heater core/ductwork are the same but that would only effect it if the heater was "leaking by" during A/C operation. The 180 vs. stock tstat still has no bearing on A/C operation. As far as the condenser being close to the rad, still no differance. You see, Pressure is pressure. The warmer it is under the hood the sooner the condenser fan comes on. The refrigerant works the same at 60 deg ambiant as it does at 120 deg ambiant, just the head pressure would change.
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Bill H.
Dodge Dakota
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8/17/2005
00:18:11
| RE: ? Why 180 TStat ? What Temp is Normal?
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Sorry Ed, they are right, to a degree. Because of the close proximity of the condenser core to the radiator, if the radiator is hotter then the A/C won't be as efficient. Heat is heat. Now whether it makes a noticeable difference a human could tell I don't know but if you throw a thermometer in the duct you will see the difference in a few degrees.
Now to the original question. It has always been my understanding that the closer an internal combustion engine runs to boiling point the better they run. I too have seen a grip of claims as to the power boosting the 180 thermostat ads. Has anyone dyno tested that theory???
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Dave_Dakota
Dodge Dakota
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8/17/2005
00:38:37
| RE: ? Why 180 TStat ? What Temp is Normal?
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Hmm,.. should i get one for my 2005 Dakota?
If so which one's do you guys have?
Thanks alot for the replies and i even learned a bit about AC. lol
DD
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gen1dak
Dodge Dakota
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8/17/2005
01:58:18
| RE: ? Why 180 TStat ? What Temp is Normal?
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First of all, the main reason for even having a thermostat is to limit engine wear by maintaining a particular operating temperature. There is an inverse proportion that is well documented. As operating temperature decreases, cylinder wall wear increases, especially below 180 degrees. If pushed too high, the wear curve reverses, as one can imagine. That was clearly shown in a 60-hour test courtesy of Continental Engines. Beyond that, improved emissions are maintained with higher temp thermostats, as well as better overall operation. Even the Mopar Performance manual states that a 160 degree thermostat should only be used in high endurance racing vehicles. Use in other vehicle could result in serious damage. Now, I'm sure there are plenty out there who have never had damage from a 160. I grew up with vehicles that never had a thermostat after the OEM failed, but I do remember feeling a serious ring groove in the cylinders of some of those engines when they were rebuilt. Stock, a 180 won't do much. With mods, it helps. Computerized and injected or just carbureted, some things never change.
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jsst
Dodge Dakota
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8/17/2005
03:53:13
| RE: ? Why 180 TStat ? What Temp is Normal?
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Big Ed, sorry for the misunderstanding. I should clearify. When I shut off my truck for about 10-15min, get back in and go, my engine temp on the gauge reads the same as it did when I shut it off, but the inside temp will go into the low 100's. The a/c cools down my truck noticably quicker, wether or not the actual temp is noticably colder, probably not. I have an'01 4.7 quad w/o clutchfan, just secondary electric fan. I took it off about 3 1/2 years ago. I tow my two boats and two trailers and I also drive my truck hard. Never had an over heating issue.
The 180 stat is noticable at the throttle with my mods.
I'll try to be more specific on my next post, just takes so long to type these words.
Thanks guys.
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Big Ed
Dodge Dakota
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8/17/2005
07:23:11
| RE: ? Why 180 TStat ? What Temp is Normal?
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Sorry Bill H. it don't work that way!!!! 190 to a 180 temperature at the rad won't effect the condenser coil hardly at all. The coil is in front for one thing, drawing ambiant air first plus the cond. fan cuts in if the pressure gets too high. The evaperator temp will always be close to constant (about 35 psig = 35 Deg).
No use in arguing about this. Its trivial.
Dave, if you want a 180, do it, from whats been posted on other threads, it won't hurt. Most people have been putting them on cause they compensate for a lower temp because they remove the clutch fan.
My thoughts have always been, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it". They (engineers) design things for a reason.
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Idakota
Dodge Dakota
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8/17/2005
11:06:38
| RE: ? Why 180 TStat ? What Temp is Normal?
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I am thinking of putting in a 180 degree thermo in my 4.7 dak because when i have the superchips tuner installed i get a slight pinging. My only hold up is that it gets below zero here in the winter, does anybody know how severe an effect the 180 thermo will have on my heater?
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.boB
Dodge Dakota
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8/17/2005
14:02:02
| RE: ? Why 180 TStat ? What Temp is Normal?
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" I am thinking of putting in a 180 degree thermo in my 4.7 dak because when i have the superchips tuner installed i get a slight pinging. "
IMO, this is really the only reason to do it. It will help keep the heads cooler, and that reduces detonation. Worked for me. I also added a surfactant (water wetter).
"My only hold up is that it gets below zero here in the winter, does anybody know how severe an effect the 180 thermo will have on my heater?"
It will be 15 degrees cooler. Since the Dodge heater is almost nuclear, I don't think it will be a problem. I live in central CO, and have some bitter winter days. I'm not too worried about it.
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Idakota
Dodge Dakota
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8/17/2005
14:58:28
| RE: ? Why 180 TStat ? What Temp is Normal?
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Thanks for the advice, i think ill go ahead and make the switch to the 180 thermo and see if that solves the pinging problem, oh and one more thing, will it have any effect on gas mileage?
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gen1dak
Dodge Dakota
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8/17/2005
18:46:41
| RE: ? Why 180 TStat ? What Temp is Normal?
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Curing detonation will automatically improve mileage. How much? Depends, but don't look for miracles, just a modest improvement. The 180 should at least help with this.
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Dave_Dakota
Dodge Dakota
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8/17/2005
22:59:08
| RE: ? Why 180 TStat ? What Temp is Normal?
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Great Information:
It looks like if i come across a 180 T-Stat I'
ll pick one up but as it is right now I can't find any that say they are for the 2005 4.7L Dakota. I can find any other make and model but no `05 Dakota's... It figures...
DD
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ricardcapecod
Dodge Dakota
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8/19/2005
15:39:20
| RE: ? Why 180 TStat ? What Temp is Normal?
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Idakota, just be carefull to not to tighten it too much.
If you do, it will be open all the time, like hapened w/ me. when the cold weather came, the check engine light went on. Then, i checked the Tstat and replaced it w/ another 180*, but this time correctly done.
I also have CAI and no clutch fan, and never had any probs about heating or cooling.
The possible prob about not having the clutch fan is when idleing still. You most turn the compressor on for the electric one start up, or it will automatically at around 200*.
I did not have the necessity of an extra eletric fan yet, but i see that in the future.
Another point is that you want you engine working w/out much variation of temp, (read dilatation and contraction) as much as possible.
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