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hawkster
Dodge Dakota
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5/15/2005
21:27:26
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 Subject: cam lift
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i was wanting to know if any one knows what the stock cam lift of a 2000 R/T cc is. if so thanks if not thanks for looking.
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gen1dak
Dodge Dakota
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5/15/2005
22:08:08
|  RE: cam lift
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What engine?
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Mopar318
Dodge Dakota
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5/15/2005
22:36:18
| RE: cam lift
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All R/T's are the 5.9 liter engine.
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hawkster
Dodge Dakota
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5/16/2005
14:26:05
| RE: cam lift
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the motor size for a dakota R/T is 5.9 for all of the people that dont know
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gen1dak
Dodge Dakota
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5/16/2005
21:49:28
| RE: cam lift
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Easy boys. No offense intended. Anyway, the vaunted RT has a miniscule .410" gross valve lift. For reference, the 5.2 has .432" lift.
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N56629
Dodge Dakota
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5/17/2005
06:44:27
| RE: cam lift
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Do you mean that an R/T cam will actually degrade the performance of a 5.2?
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georgieporgie
Dodge Dakota
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5/17/2005
12:13:33
| RE: cam lift
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not the mopar r/t cam dumba$s, the stock cam from the 5.9L in a dakota r/t...
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gen1dak
Dodge Dakota
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5/17/2005
12:48:52
| RE: cam lift
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Yes, the stock OEM 5.9 camshaft would reduce performance in the 5.2. Slipping the 5.2 cam into the 5.9 would help the 5.9. The Mopar Performance Magnum RT cam, however (lifts of .458 intake, .467 exhaust) would kick up either engine thanks to higher lift, and a more aggressive cam profile.
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check out
Dodge Dakota
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5/18/2005
17:58:13
| RE: cam lift
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try checking out this page, look under 94+ Magnum engine specs then pick out and read the engine charts for the one you want to see.
http://www.dodgeram.org/tech/gas/specs/index.html
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however
Dodge Dakota
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5/18/2005
18:06:20
| RE: cam lift
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even tho less lift the 5.9 cam has more duration in the intake lobe.
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gen1dak
Dodge Dakota
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5/18/2005
21:56:34
| RE: cam lift
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Not nearly enough duration to matter, and no way will that make up for the lost HP from less lift. Furthermore, both cams have lazy profiles.
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Lift
Dodge Dakota
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5/19/2005
18:44:29
| RE: cam lift
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Lift = torque
Duration= horsepower
Too much lift not enough duration will get you off the line quicker but I'll pass your ass before the finish line in a quarter and if we go to the half mile you might as well get out and take a whiz
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gen1dak
Dodge Dakota
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5/20/2005
00:34:40
| RE: cam lift
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The cams being discussed have lobes smaller than the zits on your face, whizbang. Class, this is what happens when someone has just enough info to get themselves into trouble. And Lift, you have it backwards. Don't take my word for it. Here it is straight from the Mopar Performance manual:
"Let's look at the various specifications in order of importance.
1. Lift
Direct effect on power, especially under .600". More LIFT, more power (less torque).
2. Overlap
Affects idle quality and driveability.
3. Duration
Not too useful in general. For lifts under .600", the advertised duration can be useful as long as all the camshafts being considered are from the same manufacturer. If more than one manufacturer is involved, go back to #1......
Of all the camshaft specifications available, lift is the one to use if test results or Mopar Performance recommendations are not available.
Valve lift = HP
Duration and overlap are more related to midrange torque.
Got it?
Okay, and it gets more complicated from there, so I'll leave it at that.
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ow
Dodge Dakota
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5/21/2005
01:23:44
|  RE: cam lift
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Hey is this a bit--ch fest or do we all just likes the same stupid things. trucks that kick a$$.
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N56629
Dodge Dakota
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5/21/2005
11:49:36
| RE: cam lift
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"3. Duration
Not too useful in general. For lifts under .600", the advertised duration can be useful as long as all the camshafts being considered are from the same manufacturer. If more than one manufacturer is involved, go back to #1......"
That's just a bit oversimplified. The industry standard, for comparison sake, is to use duration at .05 and SAE standard is .006. It is quite possible to have identical lifts and very different durations.
If I were looking at identical lifts, from different manufacturers, the only why to compare them is by looking at their duration. Heck, it's difficult to even compare cams from the same manufacturer. The don't use the same profile for street and race cams.
About the only time you can discard duration is when the ramp, nose and base profiles are the same, then lift pretty well determines duration. Of course, since we are talking mostly roller tappets here, duration becomes less of a factor than it used to be. Bottom line, unless you are building the ultimate racer, find out what is working for some other guy with a similar setup.
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gen1dak
Dodge Dakota
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5/21/2005
18:15:29
| RE: cam lift
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No, it's not a "bit-ch fest". It's, in this case, where some moron chimes in with an unwarranted comment, and when he gets the facts put in his face, it's called a "bit-ch fest". Everything was fine til bass-ackwards chimed in.
N56629, if you have an issue with what I typed about lift, overlap, and duration, take it up with the gurus at Mopar Performance. They wrote it. K? However, nowhere in it does it say duration can't be different with the same lift. What they said was lift is the primary determinant of power, meaning horsepower, which is what I was using to explain to the backwards one. And the simple fact of it all, is that you cannot even have duration until you have lift.
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N56629
Dodge Dakota
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5/21/2005
20:36:08
| RE: cam lift
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You can't have a chicken without an egg. Er ah, is it, you can't have an egg without a chicken?
When your lift reaches its limitations, how do you increase flow? Increase duration?
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gen1dak
Dodge Dakota
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5/21/2005
21:22:54
| RE: cam lift
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Well. Duh. Once again, the cams in question aren't anywhere near the limitation of anything except humility. And did I say duration didn't ever matter? Umm, like MP said. Where it matters is, say, over .600" lift maybe? Game. Set. Match.
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N56629
Dodge Dakota
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5/22/2005
12:21:41
| RE: cam lift
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Wrong again. That is simply the point where it goes from relevant to almost indispensible. Find some cam profile software and try to use it without plugging in the duration if you think it is so unimportant. If you want to mindlessly follow the advice of Mopar Performance or any hot rod rag, be my guest.
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gen1dak
Dodge Dakota
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5/22/2005
22:01:02
| RE: cam lift
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First of all, it's not MP magazine, it's the manual from MP, you know, the ones who have been in the performance game for over 50 years?
Second, obviously, two cams, all else being equal, with the same lift, can have different durations. Why is it, you are so transfixed on one dimension of the overall package? The cam with greater duration will usually improve midrange power, UNLESS that added duration has exceeded the airflow capability of the intake, or heads. That extra 10 degrees of duration could actually cause a loss of power because the rest of the package can no longer keep up. Too much duration will allow regurgitation and a loss of cylinder pressure. That's fine if you want a 9,000 rpm engine, but not too hot on the street. Take the LA heads. In your own words regarding lift limitations...much above .480 lift and the LA's begin to experience turbulence unless heavily reworked. For them, adding some duration was the only real way to gain power, not to go for more lift, but to add duration and gear appropriately to take advantage of the added torque in the midrange. Naturally, the rest of the package had to support this, and only so much duration could be added before the engine would only make usable power at 4,000 rpm.....not exactly a street engine.
Also, in your words:
"When your lift reaches its limitations, how do you increase flow? Increase duration?"
Just where are lift limitations? I would think above .600" would be getting up there.
And, once again, back to the point. The 5.9 cam, despite a few more degrees duration, will decrease performance when compared to the 5.2 cam. Those few degrees cannot com close to the power increase an additional .022 lift will give. No? Do the math. .410 lift with 1.7 rockers makes .435 lift (5.2 lift is .432). Again, a miniscule change in duration, but significant LIFT increases, and that's where the power comes from.
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N56629
Dodge Dakota
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5/22/2005
22:27:17
| RE: cam lift
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"Second, obviously, two cams, all else being equal, with the same lift, can have different durations. Why is it, you are so transfixed on one dimension of the overall package?"
I'm not. Go back and point out this fixation. I simply chose not to discount it. You referred to Mopar bible which said- " If more than one manufacturer is involved, go back to #1." I disagreed and gave my reasons.
"The 5.9 cam, despite a few more degrees duration, will decrease performance when compared to the 5.2 cam. Those few degrees cannot com close to the power increase an additional .022 lift will give. No? Do the math."
Now why don't you just calm down, then go back and see you find where I dispute that. My question/comment about the R/T cam was sarcasim, because I often hear people wanting to install or sell the R/T cam as a performance upgrade.
I think we are in agreement, you just don't know it yet. Maybe you just have to spend a little less time looking for the worst in people.
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