| From | Message |
Jeffster
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
4/18/2005
19:44:44
|
 Subject: HO engine swap?
IP: Logged
Message:
Just picked up a 4.7 HO engine out of a Jeep Overlander for $2000 with 15,000 miles on it to swap with my 4.7. The wiring harness is completley different and the wire bundle is much thicker(the Overlander probably has every option in the dashboard) but I should be able to use my harness since the block and sensors are the same.
Has anyone ever done this or am I in trouble here with a diffent PCM? Since my current engine works as good as new and I am in no hurry I was considering ording the Ross forged pistons 11-1 comp from KRC and painting the block etc untill I am ready to do the swap. Will keep everyone posted on the progress. BTW does anyone know what kind of HP the high comp pistons add. I will email KRC anyways.
|
N56629
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
4/18/2005
20:58:23
| RE: HO engine swap?
IP: Logged
Message:
Wouldn't it have been easier to put 2 grand into the existing engine?
|
Jeffster
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
4/18/2005
21:21:50
| RE: HO engine swap?
IP: Logged
Message:
Well I now have higher flowing more eficient HO heads, HO cams, HO valves and higher strength springs, HO intake along with a forged instead of cast cranshaft unique to this engine along with better pistons even if I don't change them. The HO had other upgraded features as well. It should be a better foundation to build on over just the regular 4.7L engine. I hope it's all worth it anyway?
I figured all these upgrades along with an engine that has 45,000 less miles made it worth it.
|
GraphiteDak
GenIII
4/19/2005
00:27:44
| RE: HO engine swap?
IP: Logged
Message:
I've heard there was a few control sensor changes. Cam sensor or something but don't trust my memory, I'm just guessing from what I remember.
Throwing in them 11:1 KRC psitons with them heads would yeild some serious compression.
I have day dreamed of finding a wrecked vehicle with a 4.7 myself for a build up from KRC performance parts. make a nice sleeper 4X4.
They claim over 400 HP at like 6800 RPM's with their set up. Obviously needing a PCM reprogram too :)
|
DMSDAK
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
4/19/2005
01:48:38
|  RE: HO engine swap?
IP: Logged
Message:
As of like 3 weeks ago I completed this exact swap into my 2001 Dak 5 speed. Make sure you have an engine to match your pcm is the only worries, like a Jtech for a Jtech and NGC for NGC, the Jtec has 3 connectors on the PCM and the NGC has 4. If your truck had three makesure this engine had 3, you can also look at the front of the cam sprockett and if it says NGC then it wont work with a Jtech, if you have any questions feel free to email me at wildturkey83@hotmail.com
|
Jeffster
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
4/19/2005
02:36:22
| RE: HO engine swap?
IP: Logged
Message:
I think I am OK since my truck is 2001 5 speed like yours and the donor is a 2002.
did you use your original wiring harness. Oh ya and how's it running, fast I hope.
|
rgathright
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
4/19/2005
09:23:41
| RE: HO engine swap?
IP: Logged
Message:
WOW! Jeffster is back!
Why not just get some 218 KRC cams for that combo Jeff? It has been repeated online before, that the stock 4.7L crank can handle 500+ HP. The weak point is the pistons. I have seen numerous, "I blew a piston" posts in the forums.
Check out this page for some detailed information on how a turboed 4.7L blew it's piston. http://www.reubengathright.com/RTnotTurboPage.htm
Here is some info on another mega 4.7L build:
http://www.reubengathright.com/47_Mega_build.txt
Another clue that pistons have issues... is the changes made to the 2005 4.7L piston rings by dodge:
http://www.reubengathright.com/2005_47_DakotaEngine.htm
|
Kowalski
GenIII
4/19/2005
16:40:31
|  RE: HO engine swap?
IP: Logged
Message:
DMSDAK - are you talking about a HO 4.7 ? I've heard it was incompatible since there never was a '01 Dak HO PCM. There are differences between the motors which are supposed to make this swap not work; among them is the fact that the HO has knock sensors and there is no provision for that in the regular 4.7 PCM. For Jeffster's sake, I hope the people who claimed this swap is not possible were wrong...
Lead, follow, or get out of the way
|
Jeffster
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
4/19/2005
20:49:28
| RE: HO engine swap?
IP: Logged
Message:
Well I have discovered these knock sensors. I am simply not going to connect them to my wiring harness and hope it all still works. I mean isn't it just like other people putting HO parts on their engine? The PCM was never designed to deal with HO cam's' heads or intake but everyone is reporting no problems and they haven't added sensors.
I really hope this all works if not everyone in the neigbourhood will konw.
It seems strange that people are reporting almost 30HP gains from the HO cam's and manifold swap. The actual HO engine also has better pistons with 9.7-1 compression, higher flowing heads,different exaust valves and spring along with several other performance related upgrades yet is only on paper as producing an extra 40HP at the most. Is the difference more in the powerband or what is the larger picture with so much factory upgrading on this engine.
BTW I am afraid to spend antother grand on the Ross pistons untill I can figure out if after the swap this engine even going to run and just how much power they will add even then after learning my HO pistons are better than the reg 4.7 I might just leave it alone and add a few bolt ons after it's all custom painted and out of the truck where it's easy to work on.
|
rgathright
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
4/20/2005
08:48:17
| RE: HO engine swap?
IP: Logged
Message:
Jeff and Kowlaski, people have used the 4.7 HO. Here is a swap that happened recently on Dakotausa.com
http://dakotausa.com/vBulletin/showthread.php?t=24605&page=1&pp=40
And here is why DMS, went to a HO. :)
http://dakotausa.com/vBulletin/showthread.php?t=24116
Jeff, why not post some pics of your work? You can also just send them to rgathright@gmail.com I will host them on my page for others to use in the future.
|
Jeffster
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
4/20/2005
10:04:54
| RE: HO engine swap?
IP: Logged
Message:
I will take several pic's and send them to you as the work is done.
|
Jeffster
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
4/20/2005
19:35:43
| RE: HO engine swap?
IP: Logged
Message:
I went back to the wrecker today and picked up the HO PCM that was in the 02 Cherokee my engine came out of. It's a J tech since it has 3 plug in's on like mine. I also removed the valve cover and noticed that the sproket has 32 teeth. I thought 32 teeth meant it was NGC so if anyone can clarify this it would be apreciated
BTW a 4.7L will not run on a 4.7 HO PCM. I tried it and it starts up with no problem but dies almost imediatly. The rpm's, amp meter and temp's do work but not the oil pressure gauge for the 2 seconds or so before it dies. Just thought I'd throw that in any case anyone wanted to know.
|
DMSDAK
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
4/21/2005
00:19:58
| RE: HO engine swap?
IP: Logged
Message:
Yeah I never said I was using the H.O. PCM, Im not Im running the normal 2001 PCM and stock wiring harness and as of right now Im keeping 93 Octane in it as not to detonate. I just left the knock sensors unplugged and crammed the harness up under the intake manifold, I figured that since there is so little difference in compression between the Normal output and the High Output engines and since KRC sells 11.0:1 pistons for stock trucks without knock sensors Id be okay not to run them myself. This thing seems to be a bit faster, but Id say I wont know till I get the money saved to have KRC create me a custom PCM flash to take into account the increased revability of this engine and its cams, stock my engine died at 5K this one keeps pulling to 6k but seems as if its leaning out on top, I pulled the plugs, after swap I was using Autolite 3922's and they were everyone bright white and looked brand new, figure they should have a almost golden sort of toasted marshmellow look to be perfect thats why Im figuring its lean, now I have NGK 6097 plugs in it. So with a custom flash Id say this engine will really wake up, new parts I ended up using were a new clutch and pressure plate, a throwout bearing, new oil pan and pick-up tube, the Jeep one will not work due to the way the pan is shaped. Also I used the stock Jeep oil dipstick, cant use the Jeep exhaust manifolds either, (one is almost a center dump) I went with Gibson Headers and I installed them before I set the motor in that took out alot of the hassle. Oh yeah and to install the motor I used a cherry picker and a ratchet strap, tied the ratchet strap to the harmonic balancer(which is larger than the stock one) and pulled the engine almost verticle to go back down into the engine bay, watch the brake booster its close clearance. Any more questions just shoot!
|
IdahoRT
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
4/21/2005
01:09:03
| RE: HO engine swap?
IP: Logged
Message:
Regarding your white plugs, mine come out bright white as well. Autolite 3922's, 8psi boost, and 11.8 AFR, definately not lean. Either the plug is still too cold, or maybe something with the chamber design. I've just been too lazy to find part numbers for a good cold race plug to try.
|
Jeffster
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
4/21/2005
04:38:57
| RE: HO engine swap?
IP: Logged
Message:
I do have a question. Is my HO an NGC or Jtech ( The HO PCM is a 3 plug in bu the cam sprocket has 32 teeth) BTW I didn't think you were using the HO PCM and I figured I would just ignore the sensors as you have done but I am glad to hear this has actually worked for you. Oh yeah the HO PCM was given to me for free so nothing lost their.
As for your plugs I read on a web site that the HO has special platnium tiped plugs and it is absolutley crucial that these plugs are used on this engine.
Thanks also DMS for sharing your knowledge.
|
DMSDAK
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
4/21/2005
14:09:25
| RE: HO engine swap?
IP: Logged
Message:
IdahoRT correct me if Im wrong but the 32 teeth on the cam sprocket dosent really matter as much about it working as much as the thin peice of metal attatched to it with the square windows in it, as far as I know thats what the cam sensor reads and thats what needs to match up to your stock trucks engine. Also the Crankshaft tone ring is what has 32 teeth when its NGC and 16 when its Jtec. Your H.O. is most likely a Jtec. if its from an 02. As far as plugs go Im using reccommended replacements or substitues Id guess youd call them, only thing crucial here is for them to be the same heatrange as stock. I currently have used 3922's with good luck and then I switched to NGK 6097's just to see if there was a difference. They dont have to be platinum thats just for long service intervals. The stock plugs however are RC7PYCB4 Champions.
|
01Motorsport
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
4/21/2005
23:42:42
| RE: HO engine swap?
IP: Logged
Message:
Hey, DMSDAK; always good to hear ya! From what I can recall, a stock 4.7 is 9.3:1 compression, the HO 9.7:1. The 30 HP claim for the cams alone on a non-HO 4.7 are not dyno-based. Most dynos showed 15 HP/ 25 TQ with the cams swap. The 2002 HO engine was rated 30 HP more (at 265) than the non-HO 4.7. Compared to the cams swap, a total engine swap for 15 more HP seems like a radical step, but I haven't heard if the Jeep HO guys have every modded their engines like the Dak guys. Untapped potential? I guess some of you are about to find out for us.
|
Jeffster
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
4/22/2005
01:59:12
| RE: HO engine swap?
IP: Logged
Message:
Thanks DMS. I opened the other valve cover and saw the cam sensor and it has 16th slots so I feel pretty good right now.
I would imagine that this motor has a little more potential than the extra 15-20 HP and 20LB TQ from an engine swap as opposed to just changing the cams because of the forged crank and better heads amongst several other improvments. The engine should stand up better to the higher HP from mod's like forced induction with out blowing out the bottom end.
BTW any idea if I would lose a lot HP putting in lower compression forged pistons in anticipacion of a turbo or SC set up?
|
Kowalski
GenIII
4/22/2005
15:11:58
| RE: HO engine swap?
IP: Logged
Message:
How much you lose will depend on how much lower you go, but you'll see it come back when you add the boost. '01 makes a good point here - much of what you've gained over the cam swap is potential - you have a beefier crank which should take more abuse, and you'll see some higher rpm gains from the better flowing heads; but you're not even going to see 15 hp over a simple cam swap. By not being able to use the extra ignition advance from the HO PCM, you won't see the power gain from that with the motor swap. That is an important part of the HO package, as anyone who has added extra ignition advance to their 4.7 can attest. Throughout most of the rpm range, all you're going to see is a slight gain from the slightly raised compression ratio.
Lead, follow, or get out of the way
|
Jeffster
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
4/22/2005
17:53:27
| RE: HO engine swap?
IP: Logged
Message:
I wonder if I can use my HO PCM and combine wiring harnesses (the motor I bought was complete with everything wiring harness, altenator, a.c etc.) The biggest problem is my transmission is a a manual and I don't know if the HO PCM will recognize that since all were auto's.
|
Pittdawg
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
4/23/2005
16:33:02
| RE: HO engine swap?
IP: Logged
Message:
Ideally you should have someone (B&G, Leach, KRC) flahs your pcm for your exact setup.
|
| | P 1 Next Page>> |
