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2003 4.7
Dodge Dakota
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2/06/2005
01:36:37
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 Subject: Hope for NV3500 ?
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Probably a stupid question, but. Does anyone know if the internals (input shaft, gears, syncros) can be upgraded ? More specfic, could they be regeared to not have such a flat spot betwen gears, and shift a little smoother. More like a performance oriented tranny, more than a torque oriented tranny. Or would it be so cost prohibitive that id be better off saving pennies to entirly replace the whole thing.I'm not looking to solo, or road course, just seems something could be done to work more efficently with a slightly modded 4.7
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2000 Dacuda
Dodge Dakota
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2/06/2005
12:18:21
| RE: Hope for NV3500 ?
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I don't know about a 2003 application, but the Hurst shifter for my NV3500 in my 2000 4.7 sure helped give it the performance feel. Also, the stock clutch sucks. I upgraded mine to the dual friction set up.
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b1llyw
R/T
 
2/06/2005
19:49:55
| RE: Hope for NV3500 ?
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Centerforce clutch is a good upgrade. I didn't like the Hurst shifter myself but I know most guys do.
Bill White - KRC Performance
'03 Dakota R/T, CC, Black, K&N, F&B, Superchips
'04 Liberty, 4x4, 3.7, 5-speed, LSD
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2000 Dacuda
Dodge Dakota
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2/06/2005
20:45:41
| RE: Hope for NV3500 ?
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The key with the Hurst is to not use the rubber isolators. Just bolt the handle metal to metal.
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2003 4.7
Dodge Dakota
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2/06/2005
22:48:11
| RE: Hope for NV3500 ?
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I have the hurst shifter in the box that it came in after I used it for a month or so. Really got annoied with the gear whine, rattling in the cab at speed, also wasn't really impressed with how it worked. Tell me if im doing something wrong though, heard that to fit it to a newer(2000 I think)tranny you needed a spacer appox one quater inch thick. is this info correct? I used the gasket as a template to cut one out of aluminium sheet, also tossed the rubber isolators too.(ya I know gear whine huh?) I also agree that the stock clutch is junk big time, with throwout bearing noise at 30k. Really like the centerforce in my buddys 340 Duster, but last I checked they wanted over 300 for the 4.7 unit. Also as another option I went to the two local dealers to check out the new getrag six speed, but they didnt have one on the lot so there "unavalible" just like the standard cab R/T that DC "dosent make" Has anyone had experience with this tranny? Dose it shift better and not fall out of powerband like the 3500 seems to? I'm just trying to see all options 'cause I dont think at this point I need a tranny like the TKO. but as we all know that idea is subject to revision at any time.
I appreciate all the input guys.
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2000 Dacuda
Dodge Dakota
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2/07/2005
01:24:59
| RE: Hope for NV3500 ?
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You will get some gear whine no matter what, but I found that the knob that comes with it amplifies the noise. I used the stock knob until I got the better white shifter knob. Then, most all the noise was gone, but still louder than stock. I really torqued the two bolts that connect the handle to the shifter.
As far as the mounting on the transmission, mine kust uses a 1/8" gasket material, no spacers.
Now, there is also a learning curves with the Hurst. You can still miss shift, but not nearly as much as stock. Takes about 200 miles of city dricing to really get the feel.
I had mine for about five years now.
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2000 Dacuda
Dodge Dakota
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2/07/2005
01:26:55
| RE: Hope for NV3500 ?
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Oh and I had to upgrade the clutch; after 20,000 miles I spun the center hub out of the stock one.
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Broeheem
Gen III
2/07/2005
02:07:08
| RE: Hope for NV3500 ?
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I'm in the process of converting my automatic to a manual, and my first thoughts were to go for the NV3500, since I know it will fit/bolt up....
Then I got a look at the gear ratios. No way - not in MY truck. I use it as a "street terrorist", never as a "truck". The drop from 1st to 2nd is just WAY too severe - you lose all the power you've built up between that 1st/2nd shift. I've never driven a 4.7 w/ the NV3500, but I don't think I need to. I'm convinced that I wouldn't like it at all.
I also considered the idea of re-gearing the whole trans, but realized that it indeed wasn't cost effective, so I've decided to install the above-mentioned Tremec TKO-500. I should have it done in a couple of weeks.
The gear ratios alone would be a good reason, but the Tremec also has a WAY better shifter, multiple shifter locations (allowing me to install a much shorter shifter handle - closer to the driver, eliminating the need for that 2- ft-long s-shaped truck shifter), and.... as long as I'm in there, I can put in a competent clutch.
Of course, I'm also converting from a pretty anemic automatic too, so even switching to the NV3500 would give me a LOT more power to the wheels, but with the TKO gearing, this truck's gonna accelerate in a whole different league, finally putting my Hotchkis suspension and motor-mods to good use.
Is it any wonder I don't fall asleep easily? He he he he... can't wait!
Patriot Blue 2001 SLT Plus Club Cab
4.7L./multi-spd auto/3.55 LSD
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2003 4.7
Dodge Dakota
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2/07/2005
02:47:30
| RE: Hope for NV3500 ?
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Broeheem,
If your going the TKO route I'd like to know how it all works out for ya.I've spent the better part of three hours sufing different sites to find that the getrag is pretty much an NV 3500 with a shorter first gear. So that DC can get better city drivability I suppose.
I'm also perturbed at the 1st-2nd gear loss.Had a '95 318 dak with the 3500 and it seemed like the tourqe of the old magnum lessend that somewhat, but this 4.7 falls on is ass unless you rev the hell out of it in first. it sound like you and me have the same ideas for these trucks, fly low, fly fast, and fly straght.(you are with that hotchkiss kit anway) "inserts $h!t eating grin"
Since i'm sitting here having fantises about going forced induction I might be better off going with the TKO too.
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2003 4.7
Dodge Dakota
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2/07/2005
03:28:53
| RE: Hope for NV3500 ?
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2000 Dacuda,
I ordered my shifter with the black ball shifter knob. and tourqed the shifter bolts to 40 ftlbs. The stock unit has a huge rubber isolator/gasket between the case and shifter. Thats what the spacer replaces, sandwitched between two paper gaskets. It always felt like maby there should be more. guess its time for anyone that has done this to verify, or debunk the1/4" spacer idea
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2000 Dacuda
Dodge Dakota
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2/07/2005
09:42:23
| RE: Hope for NV3500 ?
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I bought mine new and there was no spacer. I know about the stock rubber spacer.
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Broeheem
Gen III
2/07/2005
10:22:59
| RE: Hope for NV3500 ?
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I'm definately gonna do this swap - likely ordering the whole thing today... just gotta do some more measuring first. You just know that I'm gonna post all over the place when it's finished. Stay tuned!
I will agree that the gap between the 1st and 2nd gears of the NV is fatal (4.01:1 - 2.33:1) for the purpose of street cruising. The TKO-500 offers a much better chance of keeping the "R's" up (3.27:1 - 1.98:1), but I was hoping that I could get 'em just a little closer together. Maybe I would've gone with the TKO-600 (2.98:1 - 1.89:1) 6-speed, but those would work better with the 3.92 ring/pinion, plus I don't think I need two overdrive grears.
The 4.01:1 1st gear in the NV I think is more for towing and pulling than for city drivability. One option, of course, is to simply keep the NV and go with a more stout ring/pinion, then skip using 1st gear altogether. That'd certainly be less expensive than the route I'm going.
At any rate, I'll keep posting on this project as it progresses, and if anyone out there knows of a place in mid-valley Oregon that I can do a little (legal) drifting.....
Patriot Blue 2001 SLT Plus Club Cab
4.7L./multi-spd auto/3.55 LSD
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CThomp
*GenIII*
2/07/2005
10:36:18
| RE: Hope for NV3500 ?
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My stock shifter boot wouldn't work with the hurst shifter on my '00 Dak. Does anyone know where I can get a shifter boot that sits alot lower before the bend on the hurst shifter shaft? The gear whine is annoying as hell though. I'll replacing the shifter knob to see how that works out. I am kinda surprised hurst didn't notice these things though.
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CThomp
*GenIII*
2/07/2005
10:37:22
| RE: Hope for NV3500 ?
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Oh yeah and it still slaps the damn dash board even though its not supposed to with this model. But that could be becuase of the lack of a shifter boot.
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2003 4.7
Dodge Dakota
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2/08/2005
02:15:24
| RE: Hope for NV3500 ?
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CThomp,
My shifter handle hit the dash also. It helped with mine to toss the rubber isolators for the handle, and pull it into second hard before tourqeing the shifter bolts.I was able to gain maby 3/8" at most though. The only option I could come up with on the boot was to remove the rubber one from the plastic frame and sew a vinyl, leather one to attach back to it.
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2003 4.7
Dodge Dakota
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2/08/2005
02:34:33
| RE: Hope for NV3500 ?
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Broeheem,
Very interested in how your swap goes. keep posting. All the pros, cons, and stuff that really dont' matter. I just want to see if TKOs are as good as thiermade to be. I know no one around this area have them avalible to look at, touch. muchless drive, so I could get some personal feedback from the tranny myself.
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CThomp
*GenIII*
2/08/2005
08:11:27
| RE: Hope for NV3500 ?
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Thanks for the info. Any thoughts about maybe having it bent? I think if the shaft was heated and bent at the bend in shaftby maybe 1" towards the driver maybe it wouldn't hit any more.
What brand of shifter boot did you find?
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2003 4.7
Dodge Dakota
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2/08/2005
21:57:45
| RE: Hope for NV3500 ?
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CThomp,
As for the centering of the shifter handle I had experimented with 1" thick poly block. This is a very tough plastic that is used in boatbuilding around here so the price was right at free. I cut it into strips as wide as the shifter handle and sandwiched it between the shifter base and handle. This provided varing degrees of sucsess. I could get the shifter centered more like the stock one but it would either slip out of place or screw up the shifter geometry. Never did heat it with a torch and bend it, but that seems to be the best solution. As for the shift boot, my stock one was a rubber boot stapled to a plasic frame that had clips to hold it into the center console. I pulled the staples out and had a local upholstery shop sew a vinyl boot that i superglued to the plastic frame.
Oh BTW I have the high back buckets in mine, dont know what the bench uses now but hurst has a boot avalible thats like the genII bench boot
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CThomp
*GenIII*
2/09/2005
09:29:22
| RE: Hope for NV3500 ?
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Thanks for the info on the boot. I'm gonna give that a try. My original boot was the rubber one as well. It rode up on the shaft really high and forced the shifter out of gear constantly. I have the bucket seats as well. Being that the shifter shaft is billet aluminum I think it should bend relatively easy if heated.
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2000 Dacuda
Dodge Dakota
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2/10/2005
20:47:54
| RE: Hope for NV3500 ?
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Billet aluminum? Mine is chromed steel. Too heavy to be any thing else. Mine has never hit the dash, only when it came loose once. I remove the rubber insulators, pulled it back hard in 2nd, torqued the bolts down (like 100lbs worth), and it shifts like a sports car.
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CThomp
*GenIII*
2/11/2005
08:36:04
| RE: Hope for NV3500 ?
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Maybe i'm wrong. I'll try the puling it back hard in second idea.
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