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White
Unregistered
2/27/2001
22:00:08
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 Subject: nitrous on 4.7
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Message:
Anyone know of any nitrous 4.7 s I didnt want to be the first to try.
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Bernd
GenIII
2/28/2001
01:05:25
| RE: nitrous on 4.7
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Message:
Yes, there is one person on the DML who is (or already has) installed a NX kit on his 4.7L.
Bernd D. Ratsch
1997 Dodge Dakota SLT
Supercharged w/Nitrous
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CyberWolf
GenIII
2/28/2001
11:14:42
| RE: nitrous on 4.7
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Message:
I would definately not run NOS on a 4.7. The pistons are cast. You really need a forged piston for NOS. Cast is not strong enough and NOS will actually eat at the piston. Also, the distance from the top ring groove to the top of the piston has been reduced to only 1/8th of an inch, making these areas susceptible to excess wear and heat. The clearances are good for NOS being at .0008 to .002 but it doesn't make up for the other weak spots. NOS will destroy your engine after using it for a while. But hey, maybe you like replacing engines.
'01 4.7 CC, 5 speed, Sport , 3.92 limited slip, Intense
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Bernd
GenIII
2/28/2001
17:29:11
| RE: nitrous on 4.7
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Message:
The pistons are Hyperutectic but even cast pistons can handle up to a 100HP shot without any problems. Longterm, i've seen (and worked on) engines with cast pistons (and Hyperutectic or Forged) that have well over 50K miles on them with Nitrous use during those 50K miles.
"CyberWolf"...From the statement you made in the post, it sounds like you're taking information from the old-school Nitrous days. Back then...it was a hit and miss situation. The Nitrous systems of today are by far more advanced in the delivery and jetting (not to forget the safety's used).
The rule of thumb with Nitrous is not to play around with the jetting from the manufacturer (they spend a lot of time in the R&D), and to run a good retard system if you're running over the 75HP mark. Not to mention one range colder on the plugs, gapped about .005" smaller, and one grade higher on fuel.
Nitrous is to be respected though. You mess with it...you will get bit.
Bernd D. Ratsch
1997 Dodge Dakota SLT
Supercharged w/Nitrous
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CyberWolf
GenIII
2/28/2001
18:02:46
| RE: nitrous on 4.7
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Message:
First off, I agree that nitrous systems are far more advanced now days than they used to be. Second, I agree that nitrous should be respected. However, the pistons in the 4.7s are cast aluminum, have moly coated skirts for break-in scuff resistance, and weigh 366 grams. I, also, have worked on engines that handled the nitrous well but I have also worked on engines that didn't do so well. The running pattern for the engines that didn't do so well, even on the new NOS, leads to the pistons. I have seen cast and hyperutectic pistons with holes in them due to nitrous. Mustangs and other vehicles with forged pistons seem to handle the NOS much better. I don't speak from experience on the new 4.7. I simply don't recommend it due to the piston design. Also, don't forget about the ring spacing.
'01 4.7 CC, 5 speed, Sport , 3.92 limited slip, Intense
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CyberWolf
GenIII
2/28/2001
18:09:00
| RE: nitrous on 4.7
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Message:
I'm going to do more research to find out more about the pistons on the 4.7. I could be wrong about them NOT being hyperutectic.
'01 4.7 CC, 5 speed, Sport , 3.92 limited slip, Intense
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white
Unregistered
2/28/2001
18:12:42
| RE: nitrous on 4.7
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Message:
Bernd Can you tell me the name or email adress of the person runing the nx system. I would like to find out any problems and what kind of gains he experenced with that kit..
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Bernd
GenIII
2/28/2001
19:44:40
| RE: nitrous on 4.7
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Message:
I took a look at that link you posted on the other thread. Lots of good info, but when I had spoken to Mopar, they stated that the pistons were (allegedly) Hyperutectic. But, the Cast Aluminum pistons will withstand 75HP without any problems. The ring spacing really isn't a problem either unless you're running more than a 75HP shot. That's when it'll come into play. Would I run a 100HP shot, on what was described in those specs? Probably not...but then again, a progressive nitrous system would be much easier on the engine...even with cast pistons. (You get the heat failures mainly when you run one big shot all at once.)
Bernd D. Ratsch
1997 Dodge Dakota SLT
Supercharged w/Nitrous
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Bernd
GenIII
2/28/2001
20:19:24
| RE: nitrous on 4.7
IP: Logged
Message:
It is either Bill (SEMIHEMI) or Steven St. Laurent. I've posted tot he DML to find out exactly who it is though.
Bernd D. Ratsch
1997 Dodge Dakota SLT
Supercharged w/Nitrous
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CyberWolf
GenIII
3/01/2001
10:11:30
| RE: nitrous on 4.7
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Message:
Bernd, I think your right about me being ruined by the old NOS days.
'01 4.7 CC, 5 speed, Sport , 3.92 limited slip, Intense
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Bernd
GenIII
3/02/2001
01:23:07
| RE: nitrous on 4.7
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Message:
Don't feel bad...I was that way until I started to play around with the progressive nitrous systems on the 5.0L Mustangs back in 1989-1992. They're even more advance now than back then.
Bernd D. Ratsch
1997 Dodge Dakota SLT
Supercharged w/Nitrous
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CyberWolf
GenIII
3/02/2001
09:33:29
| RE: nitrous on 4.7
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Message:
The 5.0 around that time was good for NOS. They came stock with forged pistons.
'01 4.7 CC, 5 speed, Sport , 3.92 limited slip, Intense
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Bernd
GenIII
3/03/2001
00:21:18
| RE: nitrous on 4.7
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Message:
Yup, but the blocks were poor and couldn't handle more that 300-350HP without breaking/cracking. Had to go with SVO blocks on anything above 350HP.
I sent two posts to the DML trying to find the guy who has Nitrous on his 4.7L. No response yet.
Bernd D. Ratsch
1997 Dodge Dakota SLT
Supercharged w/Nitrous
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Carey Dover
Unregistered
3/05/2001
13:29:40
| RE: nitrous on 4.7
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Message:
I think you may be looking for me. I wrote to Bernd about installing nitrous on my daily driven Dak. As of yet I am still undecided about the application, but I will keep you posted. You can read my original post in the performance board, page 2, nitrous???
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white
Unregistered
3/06/2001
18:18:22
| RE: nitrous on 4.7
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Message:
Bernd aside from poor performance does not keeping the bottle at 80-90 degrees matter. Wanted to try the nitrous but didnt want to tie up a bunch in something i might take right back off. Could you tell me (in your opinion) who makes the best wet kit? nx?
thanks
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white
Unregistered
3/07/2001
22:06:08
| Nitrous help
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Message:
Aside from poor performance does not keeping the bottle at 80-90 degrees matter. Wanted to try nitrous but didnt want to tie up a bunch of $$$ on a heater if i might take it right back off. Could you tell me (in your opinion) who makes the best wet kit? nx?
thanks
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Bernd
GenIII
3/07/2001
22:22:08
| RE: nitrous on 4.7
IP: Logged
Message:
When the nitrous is below 75-80 degrees, it's not quite at full pressure and causes surging. (Liquid Nitrous rather than gas)
The heater runs about $100 from NOS (that's the one that I had used on my 10lb bottle) and works very well. The NX one is just as good, but a little bit higher priced.
As for the wet systems, NX. NOS doesn't quite have their jetting down quite right.
I did, however, speak with Marty over at KRC Performance and, after spending about 1/2 an hour with him, I am leaning towards staying away from the nitrous on the 4.7L...not just because of the piston ring issue, but also because of the design of the cams, valvetrain, and intake material.
One thing that does makes me wonder about how much of an issue the ring location actually is...is the fact that Kenne Bell makes a Supercharger kit (8# boost) and the cylinder pressure (and temp) is about the same with the blower, at that boost level, as with the nitrous. They've been having pretty good success with the blower, so my opinion on the nitrous system would not to go over a 75HP shot, run it with one heat range colder plugs (gapped .005" smaller), and run the engine with a quality synthetic oil to help out with the heat.
Bernd D. Ratsch
1997 Dodge Dakota SLT
Supercharged w/Nitrous
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Shane King
DakotaEnthusiast
3/10/2001
04:00:04
| RE: nitrous on 4.7
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Message:
I have 2001 4.7 with a kenne bell supercharger and a venom nitous system. I love it but the truck only has 2500 miles on it.. I have run about 80 quarter mile runs in the low 12s with no problems at all...
Shane W King 2001 quadcab blown nitrous runs low 12s.
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Chris Swartout
Unregistered
4/04/2001
21:36:18
| RE: nitrous on 4.7
IP: Logged
Message:
This message is for shane king. You run the venom system on you dakota with how much of a horsepower shot? Where did you purchase you nitrous kit?
Chris Swartout
2000 Club cab 4x4
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Bernd
GenIII
4/05/2001
00:29:21
| RE: nitrous on 4.7
IP: Logged
Message:
Hey Shane...how are those top rings holding up? (I've heard conflicting stories about those wonderful cast pistons in the 4.7's.)
Bernd D. Ratsch
1997 Dodge Dakota SLT
Supercharged w/Nitrous
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y22man
*GenIII*
4/05/2001
10:28:57
| RE: nitrous on 4.7
IP: Logged
Message:
I have a ?.
I am not going to run nitrous on my truck. A buddy and I are looking in to it and we see 2 options wet and dry. Anyone know the pros and cons to both?
Jay
2000 DakotaCC SLT Plus 4.7L 3.90 L-Slip Stick
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Dan Gruber
GenIII
4/05/2001
14:46:12
| RE: nitrous on 4.7
IP: Logged
Message:
For those that haven't seen this article before, check the address below. It explains a lot about the construction of the 4.7. After reading this, I'm not sure that I would go anything more than a 75HP shot, nor would I go more than 6-7 pounds on a supercharger, and I most definetely would not do both, at least not without replacing the pistons. But then I want my truck to last well past the 100,000 mile mark without tearing into it.
http://www.ecpe.vt.edu/~dfritz/technical/cammer/4_7_v8.html
Dan
2000 CC/SLTplus/4X4/4.7/auto/3.55LSD
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brad
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
4/02/2002
22:26:10
| RE: nitrous on 4.7
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Message:
i have and 89 mustang with a 175 shot on stock bottom end and a 02 4.7 regular cab with a 100 shot. i have no problems with either one. our philosophy down south is it is either going to blow or go. that is the price you have to pay to go fast though. it is all about representing.
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rusty
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
2/16/2003
21:09:43
| RE: nitrous on 4.7
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Message:
On the nos questions i have a 4.7 and i also have a 100 shot on it. I have been runing this kit for about a year with no problems at all. I am running a nxpress kit with 2 degree colder plugs from ngk non platnum. This is a wet kit with a wing nozzle. I also run mobile 1 trisynthetic oil 5w30. I only have a 1/8 mile track to test on but stock it ran 9.30s on motor now it runs 8.42s on the gas. So I say yes to anyone who wants to run gas. I also have shot 150 a few times the extra 50hp i ran 8.0s.
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rusty
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
2/16/2003
21:10:52
| RE: nitrous on 4.7
IP: Logged
Message:
On the nos questions i have a 4.7 and i also have a 100 shot on it. I have been runing this kit for about a year with no problems at all. I am running a nxpress kit with 2 degree colder plugs from ngk non platnum. This is a wet kit with a wing nozzle. I also run mobile 1 trisynthetic oil 5w30. I only have a 1/8 mile track to test on but stock it ran 9.30s on motor now it runs 8.42s on the gas. So I say yes to anyone who wants to run gas. I also have shot 150 a few times the extra 50hp i ran 8.0s.
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