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Ryan
Dodge Dakota
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8/01/2004
21:39:21
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 Subject: Lots of mods and no power - what gives?
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All right, I have a '99 Dakota 5.2L 4x4 ext cab with 60,000 on it.
Here's my list of mods:
MP 1.92 Heads w/manley valves and mp springs etc.
M1 2bbl
1.7RR (Harland Sharp)
FMS 19# Injectors
K+N FIPK2
Plugs, cap, rotor, wires, 180tstat
Mopar Headers w/ y pipe
3" single exhaust with new cat and magnaflow cat-back system
I bought a g-tech to see the amazing gains I was going to have. Well, I really haven't made any. It's either a little quicker on the top end or slower on the bottom. Either way, it feels like a dog and the gtech confirms it. 0-60 is over 10s and 1/4's in the 17's. The computer is stock and was reset. I would really appreciate and ideas on what the problem could be. Fuel mileage is still about the same - about 18-19mpg at 65mph....runs smooth, too.
I've always wanted to see the potential of bolt-on mods. I'm a little disgusted to say the least.
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CRAZY8888
Dodge Dakota
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8/01/2004
23:36:52
|  RE: Lots of mods and no power - what gives?
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THAT SUCKS!!! Im in the same boat I have 3" all that way back through a gibson single, k&n fipk, pullies, and I think that my girlfriends 97 ford exploder is faster!! Im pissed off what gives is there something I am over looking I have already ordered a electric fan, 50mm tbody, and a mopar pcm. Please help!! 98 5.2 cc 4x4
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360R/T
Dodge Dakota
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8/02/2004
00:30:02
| RE: Lots of mods and no power - what gives?
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Man that's something to scratch your head about?? The only thing I can see that I would say you need is a PCM of some sort and a TB. Either a MP or B&G flash should help you out. On my CC R/T I have an M1, F&B 52mm TB, B&G M1 flash, headman headers, 2.5" Spintech true duals, MSD 6a and I am running 14.0's @ 96 mph. Now of course you shouldn't expect to see the same results in a 4X4 due to the vast weight difference but you should definantly see better than what you posted. I would also suggest doing a compression check to see how heathly the motor is.
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.boB
Dodge Dakota
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8/02/2004
15:28:16
| RE: Lots of mods and no power - what gives?
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Your first three mods listed should have provided some increase. I would expect a significant increase.
Bigger injectors alone don't generally add power. The air cleaner, thermostat, plugs/wires/cap generally don't increase power, either. Mopar headers can sometimes cost you power.
All in all, you should be on the plus side, with a measurable improvement. As always, you can't just bolt on parts and expect significant increases. Tuning is the key. Ideally, you'de want somebody to run it on the dyno and burn you a specific chip; but that get's pretty expensive. I would certainly use Hypertech (or similar).
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uh....
Dodge Dakota
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8/02/2004
16:21:41
| RE: Lots of mods and no power - what gives?
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I though hypertech's were for mostly stock
trucks.
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R/T
Dodge Dakota
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8/02/2004
16:42:11
| RE: Lots of mods and no power - what gives?
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The heads lost you a lot of torque. If it bogs in the lower rpms this is why. Especially since you have a 4x4. M1 on a 4x4, probably isn't a good idea either. But since you already did all that stuff, what you need now is: most definately a B&G flash, cam with good mid range power, and 4.56 gears. With those 3 the truck will feel totally different.
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Greg
Dodge Dakota
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8/02/2004
17:17:23
| RE: Lots of mods and no power - what gives?
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Just wondering, but how many miles have you put on it since all of this??? You ussually have to wait for up to 500 to 1000 miles on some very highly modded engines before you see all of the gains...
I personally put over 6 grand in my motor and exhaust and was quite frankly distugsted went I took it out for the first few mile test drive... I actually had lost power beleive it or not... After, I would honestly say 2 to 3 hundred miles I finally started seeing improvements... And not all of the improvements until a good 1000 miles...
Might oughta check plug gap, should gap to where they burn a very nice tan color... Injectors will take atleast 2 to 3 hundred miles to trim your fuel curve right... 3" exhaust and headers more than likely killed any back pressure = less torque, but a better flowing exhuast...
Might try setting tps to .89 volts, and advancing timing via moving crank sensor 3/8" toward oil filter... And while your at it advance your fuel sync by turning your distributor to + 3 or 5 degrees...
How long was truck in shop??? May be bad gas in the tank not run completely out of the system yet...
Might recheck valve lash "while engine is running for most accuracy"... May be running too much preload...
May have to like most said hook up a chip like JET stage 2 or a programmer to really take advantage of everything...
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?
Dodge Dakota
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8/03/2004
11:09:32
| RE: Lots of mods and no power - what gives?
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http://www.krcperformance.com/newcontent/timing.html
IF you haven't already - check this out
But - give it a few good trips to " learn "
everything..
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Sneezer
Dodge Dakota
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8/03/2004
14:25:16
| RE: Lots of mods and no power - what gives?
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You definitely need a PCM or flash. The PCM really lets you take advantage of all those mods. Without it your would get some performance gain, but not as good as with a PCM.
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Tnjones
Dodge Dakota
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8/03/2004
16:05:45
| RE: Lots of mods and no power - what gives?
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Sorry man, but all you are doing is putting numbers to what the few of us with build experiance who frequent this site have been telling all those who's 'butt dyno's' tell them things like throttle body spacers actually boost power.
All of your mods have increased POTENTIAL flow through your motor. They are all for naught until you at least put in more cam and then gear the diff to take advantage of the new cam's power curve. Higher compression pistons and having your crank balanced to match them will also help.
Maybe a few of those who are so sure their cold air intake gave them a noticible increase will take a lesson from the time and money you've invested and correctly measured to zero net gain.
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three inches
Dodge Dakota
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8/03/2004
18:31:26
| RE: Lots of mods and no power - what gives?
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three inches is at least part of the problem with no gain, the three inch pipes are TOO DARN BIG for anything less then a 400 and you are using it with a 318 thats why the low end lost! with a smaller pipe you do not loose low end, AND the slight gain at top end will increase. I would have figured by now since so many have posted the same thing that you guys would get it right someday, but 5 years later samo-samo!
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BIGTYMER
Dodge Dakota
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8/04/2004
09:42:11
| RE: Lots of mods and no power - what gives?
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I have a 97' CC 4x4 with the 318. Mods are CAI, headers and no muffs. Also have a shift kit and Jet chip. My best run so far is a 15.8 at 88 mph, but I hit the top end limiter before the line. I was on my way to a 14.4 or so.
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Greg
Dodge Dakota
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8/05/2004
15:17:22
| RE: Lots of mods and no power - what gives?
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I would just like to start by revising this a little and saying that everything you did will increase power, but not in the power range you want it to be in...
What I mean by this is since everyone is putting you down and saying that you can't get more power from what you did is that they are wrong, but it's not in the power range that you can run without other serious valve train and computer upgrades... The intake and exhaust are the two big influences here... By this I mean they will both increase power subnantially, but only in the 5000 to 7000 rpm range... This is because the M1 intake for starters was designed more for a highly modded 360ci engine...
The runners of the intake are far too short for any kind of low end increase without major valve train work... The shorter the runners the higher in the rpm's your power will move to... This is just like camshafts... Sure the fatter lobes will give you more power, but it also moves the power up in the power band with every lobe size increase you get...
In either case you would had been better off to modify your stock intake manifold by doing these if you still have the manifold and are interrested in trying this...
For starters you will want to port match the intake to the heads, then shorten the runners to 13" ... This will put your power in the 3000 to 4000 rpm range, so as you can see the extremely short runners of the M1 moves your power way up... The runners set at 13" will also allow you to get back a whole lot of your lost torque in the lower rpms as well... Then you will need to open your bores "where the tb sits" up to what ever sixe your tb is... Then remove the devider inside the manifold... I would also go ahead and order the heavier plennum from hughesengines and put a new seal on as well "of course"...
Like TnJones said a lot of people will bolt on all of these "great" improvements without researching the history and life of the motor and where and how it develops its power before they go to modifying things...
You should have seen close to 5 - 10hp just from the 1.7 rockers, not to mention the 180 tstat which the magnums develop their most power in the 182 degrees area... Then of course the K&N cold air intake "realistically 5 - 8 hp"... The injectors at the stock 19lb hour "good choice, any more and it would had flooded out" will give you more power, but it's only noticable in the 3000 + rpm range... They will also give you better fuel mileage above all else... Heads should have improved hp some, but not as much as what people will think...
I recommend getting rid of that intake and trying out the above and see if you don't see any good "rpm range used" horse power... Then modify your sensors "more than worth it"... Then if you really want try a programmer which only modifies the sensors "same thing you can do yourself", or have it flashed with a good upgraded profile...
AND if you never put some miles on the truck, put close to 500 on it if you want first to see if that helps anything before doing anything above if you wish and I would recommend doing this just to make sure you aren't "jumping the gun" on the NO hp gains...
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