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blackrt
Dodge Dakota
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4/16/2004
13:41:05
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 Subject: NO THERMO
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ok.... I am trying to reduce the amount of heat produced from my engine.... question..... Essentially if I ran without a thermostat all togather, I would have constant coolant running through out the motor.... NOW I KNOW THERE IS A REASON that we do not do this, can anyone tell me why? what are the problems I may face.... will it wear out my water pump faster? I do live in PHX where it is hot as hell... thanks in advanced...
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.boB
Dodge Dakota
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4/16/2004
13:53:27
| RE: NO THERMO
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The purpose of the flowing coolant is to transfer the heat from the engine - mostly the heads - and carry it to the radiator, where it can be transferred to the atmsophere. That's a pretty simple explanation, but you get the point. Without a thermostat, the coolant will flow too quickly to transfer the heat. So you end up with overheating in the cylinder heads, but a normal to low water temp.
The other purpose is to allow the engine to heat up rapidly to operating temp. Without the thermostat, it would eventually warm up, but would take a while. So you're into the choke far longer than you need to.
Many racers remove the thermostat, but replace it with a restrictor plate to slow down coolant movement. For a daily driver/street car, I can see no advantage. I'm building a kit car with a 575-600 hp 427W. I used a 180* thermostat. My Dakota still has the stock 195* thermostat.
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blackrtaz
Dodge Dakota
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4/16/2004
14:22:20
| RE: NO THERMO
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Hey thanks bob! I appreciate your input! why do most dak guys only put in the 180 stat, why not put a 160 in why is one more efficent than the other? thanks again BOB!
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another mark
Dodge Dakota
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4/16/2004
15:09:25
| RE: NO THERMO
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I think a 160 in newer trucks may throw a code for not heating
up enough or running in open loop for too long or something
like that. 180 has been demonstrated
to be the optimum heat range for performance that the PCM
likes. Although some say a 180 causes a mileage loss as you
run slightly richer now. A 195 is factory installed mainly as
extra insurance for reducing emissions. At least that is what I've
learned on here.
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.boB
Dodge Dakota
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4/16/2004
15:12:00
| RE: NO THERMO
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Boy, that's a loaded question! Your computer is calibrated to run best at around 200 degrees - give or take. Mostly it's to reduce emissions. So the stock thermostat is designed to get the engine up to that temp as soon as possible. If you reprogram the computer with Hypertech or the like, you can lower the coolant temp safely.
In the olden days (60's-70's), carbed cars had a stock thermo in the 170-180* range. Remember that the thermostat controls the engine's MINIMUM temp, not the operating temp or max temp. Only the minimum.
There is a conception that a lower coolant temp will increase power. However, I've never seen any proof of that. It may be true, but nobody's proven or disproven it. There is plenty of proof to show that lower engine temps increase cylinder wall wear.
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blackrtaz
Dodge Dakota
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4/16/2004
16:25:21
| RE: NO THERMO
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bob, so If I where to go to a 160, or even a 180 for that matter, I would have a higher risk of cylinder wear? so why is this something that all the 318 and 360s do?
If A)...the stock stat heats the engine up faster to 200 (optimal performance) and that IS the temp we want to be at....
and B)... the lower temp the more engine wear?
... the only reason they change out for the 180 stat is for performance...yet "...nobody's proven or disproven it..."?
I do appreciate your input bob, and an mark...
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.boB
Dodge Dakota
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4/17/2004
00:17:49
| RE: NO THERMO
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We've kind of hashed this out here before. There have been a couple of studies published that clearly demonstrate increased cylinder wall wear as the temperature decreases. It's a small amount, but it's there.
OTOH, I've not seen any real proof the switching to a lower coolant temp will actually increase power in our trucks. It might, but nobody with a dyno has actually tried it. I tried a lower temp (180*) thermostat in my truck just to see what would happen. It ran poorly, and gas mileage went down. Maybe with a reprogrammer, it would be differant. But again, nobody has tried it to find out.
So, until I see some actual proof, I'll keep my stock thermostat.
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uh
Dodge Dakota
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4/17/2004
06:12:32
| RE: NO THERMO
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you will throw a code, but most importantly you will stay running at full rich and use fuel like crazy, in this day of 2 buck gas is what you want to do worth going from the milage you are getting to half of it? with plugs that will foul and cats that plug as a result?
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