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Brazil R/T
Dodge Dakota
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4/06/2004
23:08:17
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 Subject: manual vs auto transmission
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I was just wondering which dakota R/T would be faster in the 1/4 mile. The one equiped with the keisler T-56 6spd manual or the one with the non stock 46RE equiped with the transgo shift kit and the Viper convertor? Remember, Both are the same truck and stock on all parts but the transmissions.
Tiago/ Brazil
black 98 C/C R/T low miles
Tons of mods and 100 shot of nitrous(just ordered my powerdyne supercharger and 9 psi pulley)
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Levey
Dodge Dakota
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4/07/2004
02:03:41
|  RE: manual vs auto transmission
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Im not sure but it would seem to me it would depend how good you are with shifting. How much experience you have and all. Probably the Auto though...unless your really good.
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Slow Guy
Dodge Dakota
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4/07/2004
12:43:08
| RE: manual vs auto transmission
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The Keisler would. If you looked at their site, if you put the T56 in, the first gear ratio would equate to you putting a 4.7? something, the gears are closer, but you still get lower cruising speeds for the highway. Hefty chunk of change, but I bet it'd be worth it.
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Brazil R/T
Dodge Dakota
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4/07/2004
17:24:08
| RE: manual vs auto transmission
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Levey, Iīm not sure yet but I think is the auto transmision too especialy when comes to shifting the gears.
I can be wrong, but in my opinion there is no way in hell that a manual shifting can be faster than a auto with a electronic gear change and which has the transgo shift kit and the viper convertor.
Slow Guy, I agree with you that the keisler 6spd transmission would be a nice lower cruising speeds for the highway and pretty fast on aceleration also, because of the lower first gear ratio.
Which dak would have more HP at the wheels?
Anyone running one these trans setups? How Do you liked?
My R/T has the trans go shift kit and itīs a big improve in transmission performance in my opinion
even racing cars that are faster than my truck when It comes to changing gears my truck takes the advantage on the race. I plan on changing the convertor in the future because I can afford the price of the keisler transmissions.
Tiago/ Brazil
black 98 C/C R/T low miles
Tons of mods and 100 shot of nitrous(just ordered my powerdyne supercharger and 9 psi pulley) Pretty excited!!!
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98 blk R/T
Dodge Dakota
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4/07/2004
17:27:45
|  RE: manual vs auto transmission
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OPS...
Anyone running one of these trans setups? How Do you like it?
I canīT afford the price of the keisler transmissions.
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RAMDAKOTA
Dodge Dakota
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4/08/2004
16:28:21
| RE: manual vs auto transmission
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I'm going to say the manual trans. That is, assuming that it is lighter as they usually are. Also, I'm not sure what the stall of the viper converter is.
Typically, a better launch can be had with a manual (unless it's a turbocharged vehicle). Much more difficult to do however. The extra gears provied by the manual are better for acceleration and mpg. Additionally, the auto will always shift at the same RPM with the pedal to the floor. Some vehicles will benefit from varied shift points.
Then there is the power lost through the torque converter. Torque converters output usually turns 9/10ths what the engine is turning. This is lost HP and efficency at the wheels. That is why the lock-up torque converter was invented. However, that often disengages when your heavy on the throttle. It is mostly beneficial to mpg.
If you look at published performance figures for auto vs manual on the same vehicle you will see around .5-1 second difference (in favor of the manual) in acceleration times. The extra weight and decreased efficency of the auto are the main reasons for that.
There're more things to consider: driver ability, MT ease of shifting, and so on.
But, I would go with the MT every time.
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Neil
Dodge Dakota
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4/08/2004
19:32:08
| RE: manual vs auto transmission
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Maual is always faster untill you are in the very very fast catagory. Also an automatic eats up more HP so if the two vehicles are the same HP, the manual wil win.
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Pittdawg
Dodge Dakota
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4/08/2004
20:31:36
| RE: manual vs auto transmission
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You guys are missing the whole point of the original question, I don't think it is any mystery to anyone that a manual transmission is more efficient than a stock auto transmission, but the point of his question is whether the added performance enhancing qualities of the transgo shift kit and viper convertor would close that perfromance gap. As mentioned above, the manual may put ever so slightly more hp to the wheels (not even sure bout that though with the added efficiency of the enhanced automatic) but perfected shifts of the auto with the shift kit and no chance of missing my vote is for the auto. You guys have to understand a lot of the lack of efficiency in the auto's is because of consumer demands for smooth shifts, which is inefficient in terms of power delivery, when u install a shift kit the shifts are maximized and much harder and firmer greatly increasing power delivery.
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hmm
Dodge Dakota
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4/08/2004
21:15:03
| RE: manual vs auto transmission
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It's not easy to be consistent at the track with a stick on launches in particular.
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00 RT/BC
Dodge Dakota
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4/08/2004
21:21:50
| RE: manual vs auto transmission
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Anyone who has seen or knows of the late 70's Grand National by Buick knows that an auto can be every bit as fast as a stick, in fact it's arguably faster than a stick.
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Brazil R/T
Dodge Dakota
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4/08/2004
22:07:35
| RE: manual vs auto transmission
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Pittdawg, I agree with your opinion.
Just an example. I have a friend that has a 95 mustang gt(manual)modded. My R/T is also modded and our cars were always even when we were dragracing (I was not using NO2) but that was just until I had the shift kit put in my truckīs tranny. His Mustang was faster in a roll 20 miles per hour on because of his transmission reaction to W.O.T before my truckīs tranny did reacted of course slower to W.O.T. He was also superior changing his gears on.
Now we are even in a 20 miles/hour roll on and when I have my 1st-2nd gear changing and 2nd to 3rd gear I take a great advantage of about 1 car ahead him!! Imagine What I can do if I change the stock convertor and install a viper one with a 3000rpm stall!
I know you guys are gonna say that is not the point to compare a T-5 of a mustang to a T-56 of a Dodge Viper trans in quality and everything but in my opinion the Auto still the faster one because of the shifting qualities!
Tiago/ Brazil
black 98 C/C R/T low miles
Tons of mods and 100 shot of nitrous(just ordered my powerdyne supercharger and 9 psi pulley) Pretty excited!!!
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MoFinWiley1
Dodge Dakota
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4/09/2004
23:24:46
| RE: manual vs auto transmission
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There is NO chance of missing a gear if you put a quality t-56 in your dak. It almost shifts by itself. The shift quality differnce between the NV-3500 and t-56 is more than you can imagine. The modded auto trans will probably shift better than your average nv-3500, but WILL NOT touch the super-quick and accurate shifts of the T-56. I will try to get a video up as soon as I can.
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Bowtie-ZL1
Dodge Dakota
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4/10/2004
08:10:35
| RE: manual vs auto transmission
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I don't know anything about the auto tranny that was mentioned but using a T-350 as a reference...
If you rebuild the tranny and reduce the clearance in the clutch stacks to the minimum, use a HIGH quality clutch- such as raybestos, beef up the hard parts like the planetaries, sprag and races and use a full manual valve body with a full on race shift kit. To shift use an air actuated shifter with a small bottle of CO2. Then couple all of that behind a torque convertor with a stall that is matched to the cam range and rear gear, that has a torque multiplication factor of atleast 2.4.
An Auto that is built like this will flat out smoke the manual in the 1/4 on equivalent engines.
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STS
Dodge Dakota
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4/12/2004
19:15:03
| RE: manual vs auto transmission
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Just what type of powertrain are you using? Modified 360 motor or create motor? Those type of transmission such as the T-56 are made for high power engines such as the Viper (hence the SRT RAM) with huges amounts of tourqe. The gear in the tranny are high not low (1st gear is 2.64:1) so I would stick with the auto are better yet get a Jasper transmission based of the 47RE with a shorter 1st gear.
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Slow Guy
Dodge Dakota
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4/13/2004
16:09:47
| RE: manual vs auto transmission
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He's got a 100 shot w/ a Powerdyne on the way. I think he fit's the bill for one, and even with the higher first gear, according to Keisler the first gear(2.97) on the T56 equates to a 4.73 in the axle with an auto. The 650hp kit's first gear(2.66) equates to a 4.24 in the axle of an auto. Do your homework.
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01Motorsport
Dodge Dakota
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4/14/2004
21:04:24
| RE: manual vs auto transmission
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MoFinWiley1 didn't clarify that he has a Keisler 6-speed. This bench race has now touched reality, LOL.
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Brazil R/T
Dodge Dakota
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4/14/2004
23:25:08
| RE: manual vs auto transmission
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Hey Guys!
STS, Iīm using the Dakota R/T modified 360ci with all the goodies(Intake,CPU,Igniton,Exaust, Nitrous) stock internals, and stock camshaft and heads(I have 1.7 roller rockers).
For the transmission I have the transgo shift kit, (itīs a great performance improver in my opinion)Hughes transmission aluminum deeper pan (4extra quarters of fluid) and a bigger transmission radiator from summitracing used in front of the air conditioning radiator.
My converter still the stock one. By the way, Jasper transmissions sounds a good place to buy a nice built tranny! First time visiting their website today and I had never listened about a 47RE before.
Slow guy, I donīt have pockets to afford a Jasper 47RE, I wish I could. I bought the powerdyne supercharger because It was the cheapest one among the Vortech, Paxton, ATI, and especialy kenne Bell. If I had pockets I would buy a Kenne Bell supercharger and put on a KRC fully built 408ci stroker and a 47RE jasper tranny for my R/T.
Imagine you,I paid $2620 for my Powerdyne and Itīs gonna be here on next monday for $3650 because of all the taxes and shipping prices...
I hope this thing works well on my Dak!!! hahaa
01Motorsport, The keisler 6spd transmission will always be a dream for a poor Brazilian guy!haaha
Well at least I can comunicate with you guys and discover what I donīt know. Thank you all!!
Iīm still with the auto though about who is faster in the 1/4 mile.
Tiago/ Brazil
black 98 C/C R/T low miles
Tons of mods and 100 shot of nitrous(just ordered my powerdyne supercharger and 9 psi pulley) Pretty excited until next monday(Canīt even sleep!)
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MoFinWiley1
Dodge Dakota
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4/15/2004
13:21:24
| RE: manual vs auto transmission
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Ummm what? There are a few reason that i did not mention keisler, but thats between me and sheffi. I dont do any "bench racing", I just report on my experiences WITH MY TRUCK. As I have stated numerous times you can check out the thread ok dakotausa and see for yourself, but here are some pics.
http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/mofinwiley@sbcglobal.net/lst?.dir=/T-56+6speed+install
is that real enough for you?
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Brazil R/T
Dodge Dakota
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4/15/2004
15:51:10
| RE: manual vs auto transmission
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Haha, OPS....
MoFinWiley1, Sorry man. My stupid mind didnīt realize that you have a T-56 installed in your Dak. Nice pics.
Please, Try to get us a video of that beauty shifting the gears as soon as possible, Okay?
So, Have you compared your truck to another one with the auto set up described before?
Is there a great difference in the E/Tīs compared to the moddified auto...
Tiago/ Brazil
black 98 C/C R/T low miles
Tons of mods and 100 shot of nitrous(just ordered my powerdyne supercharger and 9 psi pulley) Pretty excited until next monday(Canīt even sleep!)
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Slow Guy
Dodge Dakota
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4/18/2004
20:54:48
| RE: manual vs auto transmission
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I wasn't referring to your truck as being slow. STS said the T56s were for higher hp trucks. I was saying yours should be pretty damn fast w/ a blower and nitrous.
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capone
Dodge Dakota
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4/20/2004
00:43:19
| RE: manual vs auto transmission
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The T56 kit can handle up to 650 hp. Does that mean that the
truck actually must have higher hp? If so, how much? I just
don't understand what, mechanically, would prevent any truck
from using the kit.
Thanks,
capone
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