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Josh
Dodge Dakota
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4/02/2004
23:03:20
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 Subject: about shift kits...
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Just a little something for people that are planning on putting shift kits or already have. There are several companies that make shift kits. They also make a shift improver kit that is different from an actual shift kit. If you want to be able to sqawk your tires in 2nd then the shift kit is your answer, but there is a downfall. The shift kit works by changing a series of checkballs and valves that actually so called force the tranny to shift. The force is from tranny fluid being forced. This in turn creates a really hard and noticeable shift that in trun actually leads to the breakdown of the transmission. Now on the other hand, the shift improver kit operates by changing a few springs and doing a little drilling. This creates more fluid, but in the form of lubrication. You will get a noticeably harder shift but not to the point of the breaking the transmission down in time. Just something to think about.
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gen1dak
Dodge Dakota
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4/02/2004
23:49:58
|  RE: about shift kits...
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That's a neat trick. Springs that "make more fluid." Josh, your intentions are admirable, but you need to study a bit more before you hang ole Blue out in the wind like that.
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huh
Dodge Dakota
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4/03/2004
01:50:54
| RE: about shift kits...
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ole blue ??
wee wee ???
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Josh
Dodge Dakota
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4/03/2004
07:33:24
| RE: about shift kits...
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No actually not. You have a couple of springs that you change-sorry.
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john-r
Dodge Dakota
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4/03/2004
17:30:19
| RE: about shift kits...
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are these hard and take long to install?
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Josh
Dodge Dakota
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4/03/2004
18:14:05
| RE: about shift kits...
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These aren't really that hard to install. The hardest part is basically getting the valve body out. After that you have to do a little drilling install a few springs and that's all. It's up to you though if you want to drill. They send step-by-step instructions on what to do.
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gen1dak
Dodge Dakota
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4/03/2004
22:07:37
| RE: about shift kits...
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Josh, my point is that you need to learn more about how transmissions work. The so-called damage-inducing kits, for example. A shift improver is, as you say, basically a mild improver. A few tweaks here-and-there to improve the basic function. The shift kits go further, but the end result is not something that damages transmissions. HEAT, damages transmissions. LACK of lubrication (friction...see heat) damages trannys. Revving up and dropping the shifter into drive while the engine is at high rpm's (sub-heading...see dumbass) damages trannys. A good tranny kit improves tranny function by basically cleaning up the act and taking it to the next level. Line pressure is increased (improving lube and overall function, as well as holding power in the clutches (less slippage=less heat generated, and less clutch wear). Reduced shift overlap means there's less time between shifts, and this also reduces slippage. Efficiency goes up, parasitic wear goes down. The heat generated by maintaining higher pressure settings on the oil is negligible compared to the savings in friction-related heat generation. The healthy slap in the back that you feel with these kits is the result of the power being directed to the wheels, and not lost inside the tranny as heat energy as a result of slippage. This extends the life of the tranny. Now, u-joints, axle shafts, and engine/tranny mounts will feel the strain, as well as the supporting hard parts in a tranny, but that's another matter. Slam enough power into one, and even a 6-pinion planetary gearset will fail. That's also a seperate issue from tranny shift kits. I've only minimally touched on this whole subject, but enough so as to make the point. Anyway, it's your choice. Burn rubber, or tranny clutches.
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Josh
Dodge Dakota
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4/04/2004
14:15:13
| RE: about shift kits...
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I know that much but what I am saying is that any transmission shop will tell you that a shift kit(not a shift improver kit) will actually beat the transmission to death. It will actually lead to tranny problems down the road. Think about it, a shift kit shifts really hard, some how, somewhere, that is going to pound the h*ll out of your transmission. Alot of transmission places won't even warranty it because of the fact that it actually beats your transmission up by forcing fluid into the transmission. Yes everybody wants to be able to let out a chirp into second gear but down the line is it actually worth it? That's why they actually intend a shift kit for racing not your everyday driver.
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another mark
Dodge Dakota
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4/04/2004
17:21:00
| RE: about shift kits...
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I keep going back and forth on whether or not I should get one.
Some say not to put them on trannys with alot of miles as it
accelerates wear and or leads to early failure of he unit. Others
say go for it. I like having a tranny that just plain works and
since I have no complaints I think I'll just leave it alone.
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00R/T CC
Dodge Dakota
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4/04/2004
17:44:56
| RE: about shift kits...
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You've missed the point. Shift improver kit will DECREASE wear as there is less time spent slipping the clutch pack (which also generates a lot of heat) when running through the gears.
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Josh
Dodge Dakota
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4/04/2004
18:36:32
| RE: about shift kits...
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There's nothing wrong with putting a shift improver kit in. In fact, a lot of people that rebuild transmissions will recommend putting on it because it reduces friction by allowing more fluid in.
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gen1dak
Dodge Dakota
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4/04/2004
22:41:10
| RE: about shift kits...
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Funny, a local tranny shop not only installed the B&M kit on my 727-equipped Charger many years ago, they also backed it with their standard 1-year warranty. They also had a prominent display about adding an aux. tranny cooler to extend the life of any tranny. Josh, sounds like you and your tranny shop people are equally un-informed. Josh, you state that "ANY" transmission shop will tell you a kit will pound a tranny to death. I'm asking you, where does this pounding take place? Which parts are actually getting pounded? Keep in mind I have already addressed this in a previous post. If you "know that much," you should be able to address this question easily.
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Josh
Dodge Dakota
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4/05/2004
07:36:55
| RE: about shift kits...
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I'm not real sure on what it pounds because I've never had it happen to me. But through a little speculation I would have to say that the check balls and valves in the transmission wouldn't be able to hold up to the series of hard beatings. I suppose that if you don't do as much city driving your transmission may not take quite a pounding from it. Obviously if the transmission shops don't recommend it around here then why in the h*ll would I put it on. Lets face it I drive a dodge it's already had the transmission replaced under warranty, why would I want to basically beat the h*ll out of my transmission? The transmission shop may warranty the product that they put in but not the transmission from getting its as* kicked. The shift kit alone will help to cool the transmission. The reduce of friction and slippage leads to less heat and wear. All that I suggest is people think twice about putting in a shift kit in their every day driver.
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gen1dak
Dodge Dakota
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4/05/2004
11:37:05
| RE: about shift kits...
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Josh, you've proved my point for me. Either you are totally uninformed, or you're a ten-year-old. Check-balls getting pounded? Paaaaaalease. You're "not real sure" but you go on a website and speak out against something you have proven that you don't understand. Does this make any sense? Basically, you're restating mis-information and what boils down to old-wives-tales, without having any fact, knowledge, or real-world experience to back it up. Now, you can live on in your closed world, or you might consider that you are wrong, open your eyes, and learn.
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daffydak
GenIII
 
4/05/2004
13:19:21
| RE: about shift kits...
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i have a ? is the transgo kit (tfod-hd2 500 and 518 series 2r) a shift kit or an improver kit. it says "reprogramming kit" on the box. there is a bunch of springs and a new plunger in the box. no check balls, and i think new bands. will this hurt my 42re or should i get it installed?
thanks
Dan
mopar=mopower
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Josh
Dodge Dakota
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4/05/2004
18:19:24
| RE: about shift kits...
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I would contact transgo on that one. It sounds to me like it's a shift improver kit.
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Bowtie-ZL1
Dodge Dakota
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4/05/2004
18:59:01
| RE: about shift kits...
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I am a recent convert to the Dodge side so please bear with me as a make a few chevy references...
as far as parts getting pounded from a shift kit... I built a 700-R4 for my Camaro, put in all the good stuff, and a Transgo kit....After about a week of tire screaming shifts, I jumped on it and did a 6,000 rpm shift. The front drum shattered where the input shaft was pressed in. To much for the aluminum drum to handle.
The moral of this chevy story is that it is possible to over modify one area of the tranny and not beef up the surrounding parts and thus cause a failure.
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gen1dak
Dodge Dakota
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4/05/2004
19:56:28
| RE: about shift kits...
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And that is exactly the point I made in my original post. When you improve the efficiency of the tranny, it will transfer more power. That, in and of itself, does not wear out the tranny. Overstressing the components is another matter, and can happen even without tranny mods, as I experienced with the A500 in my Dak.......SEVEN times.
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Josh
Dodge Dakota
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4/05/2004
21:20:49
| RE: about shift kits...
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Hey I know what you are talking about. My friend rebuilt his transmission in his neon, put a transgo shift kit in it, and hit about 8 grand on his tach, it blew the motor and did nothing to the transmission. But here's the thing he built his transmission to handle what it did. It just wasn't a stock transmission like most of us have. I don't know maybe I am wrong, but when I called to have a shift kit stuck into my truck they frowned on the idea of sticking on in. They recommended a shift improver kit. All I am going by is the people that build transmissions for a living.
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gen1dak
Dodge Dakota
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4/06/2004
00:49:50
| RE: about shift kits...
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Exactly, Josh. They frowned, because they don't want a shift kit in your tranny, or anyone else's. THEY want you to burn it up just as stock as it can be, so they can then charge you upwards of two grand to rebuild it. The shift kit corrects the problems that come from the factory, and extends the operational life. Open your eyes and think about it. I have nothing to gain by being pro-shift kit. THEY have everything to gain by being against it. And Josh, when a motor lets go, it's not usually gonna fry the tranny because the energy from the engine is going everywhere but the tranny....usually through the oil pan, or the head and possibly the hood. I'm not talking about some random freak accident where the engine kicks backwards and some part shears or explodes. This is getting away from the point. When the engine dies, the thrust it was delivering very rapidly disappears, thus, the stress on the tranny disappears. When your friend toasted his Neon, there was no reason for the tranny to blow.
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Buck Harley
GenI
4/07/2004
02:52:25
| RE: about shift kits...
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gen1dak
Hit the nail on the head. as I have installed many kits for people threw the years I have always given them the choice of a mild or a stronger shift. most good kits give you this option such as B&M . One fact has been left out it is that dirt and metal bits will distroy a tranny, by blocking the filter. and reducing the flow to the pump
Buck
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