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Donkey
Dodge Dakota
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3/18/2004
16:44:22
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 Subject: Cam help
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I am looking for a new cam for some low end torque in a 4x4. Can anyone explain cam basics to me, never looked for one before and am clueless?
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jaggy
GenIII
3/18/2004
17:15:36
| RE: Cam help
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Donkey,
Check this web page out http://auto.howstuffworks.com/camshaft.htm
If you want recomendation on what cam to use give us your engine size, 5.2, 4.7, 5.9, 3.9,
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Donkey
Dodge Dakota
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3/18/2004
17:27:54
| RE: Cam help
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Sorry, have a 2001 4x4 w/ a 4.7L
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jaggy
GenIII
3/18/2004
18:39:51
| RE: Cam help
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Donkey,
I did the HO SOHC swap in my 4.7 in a day.
It does help with the lower to mid range but lower gears are a much, much better inprovement.
If you want to do the HO cams, just do some searches on this board and you will find all kinds of threads and even some great web pages to get you familiar with the process. If you want the instructions let me know and I can email them to you. I read them a few times before attempting the install and it made it very easy.
The only tool I had to get that was not mentioned in the threads I read was a fuel line tool. I had to disconect my fuel line to get to the driver side cam.
Check out that link I posted before. I read the entire article and a couple more after I posted it for you. It really helps explain what is going on.
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Donkey
Dodge Dakota
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3/18/2004
21:52:46
| RE: Cam help
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That link helps out, thanks.
I have put on a 3" suspension lift, 33" tires and 4.56 gears, just to name a few, but the engine is stock, meaning I have not touched it. I am trying to figure out what want to I to buy to change that...
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jaggy
GenIII
3/19/2004
01:17:35
| RE: Cam help
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To be honest I don't think you will get what you are looking for from the HO cams. but for about $200 and a day of work you really can't go wrong.
I have 4.10 gears and wish that I had gone with the 4.56's. The cams help but no where near what the gears did for me. I have added a 360 air intake cat back exhaust and the HO cams. Those all together are really not that noticable. a little more pep but nothing special. you maight look into a S/C or something. I would just shy away from the nickle and dime mods if you are really looking for a bunch.
Now don't get me wrong about the mods I have done.
I plan on adding some headers and maybe a TB, then a PCM flash and calling it good.
My truck is performing right about where I want it.
Where are you located? If you are anywhere near me I will let you drive mine and see what you think.
FYI, smaller tires would give you alot more torq.
I am sure you know that but that probably why you did the 3" lift in the first place.
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Donkey
Dodge Dakota
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3/19/2004
01:45:45
| RE: Cam help
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I live in MD. I just want to see what's out there. I really do not want to sink $4k into a supercharger...
Btw, I put a catback exhaust and some headers on when I first got the truck. Did not help much performance wise, just made it louder. If I did it all over again, I would probably skip the headers and spend the money somewhere else.
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jaggy
GenIII
3/19/2004
10:50:04
| RE: Cam help
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Theres always NOS!
I hear ya on the S/C. I am in the same boat.
I have to get some kind of mileage out it durring the week and a S/C or Turbo would not be justifiable.
If you did the cams I think you would notice a little more than the exhaust, but nothing like you noticed doing the gears.
I would love to find another mod that is performance wise for the cost as the gears were.
I have toyed with the idea of an HO intake manifold setup with NOS and keeping my stocker for trips to the dealer. Maybe in a few years.
let me know if you decide on the cams and I can shoot you the instructions I used.
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b1llyw
GenII
3/19/2004
13:26:22
| RE: Cam help
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I agree on gears. You almost can't get enough gear with a 4.7. If you want to build some torque, here's my recipe for your setup: HO cams, 70mm F&B tb, pcm flash.
Bill White - KRC Performance
'95 CC 4x2, SLT - 408 is done, truck isn't
'03 Neon R/T - No mods...yet
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McyMike
Dodge Dakota
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3/19/2004
13:28:59
| RE: Cam help
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Jaggy - how did the gears affect your mileage? I have 2003 QC with 3.55 gears and taller tires. I think I have moved the trucks RPM just out of its torque zone at 65 or 70. BTW for the Donkey..I put in the HO cams..there was a difference, but not what I expected. Still doesn't run as good as our Grand Cherokee with the HO motor.
Mike
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b1llyw
GenII
3/19/2004
13:31:58
| RE: Cam help
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Remember that the 4.7 HO motor also runs different heads, a little more compression, and a different intake manifold. And a Grand Cherokee weighs less also.
Bill White - KRC Performance
'95 CC 4x2, SLT - 408 is done, truck isn't
'03 Neon R/T - No mods...yet
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Donkey
Dodge Dakota
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3/19/2004
14:10:17
| RE: Cam help
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Gears helped out a lot. Was running 33's with the 3.55 factory gears until I put some 4.56's in. 4.56's gave more response as expected. In addition, increase in RPM seems to put the engine into a area where it is more efficent when driving on the highway which increased the gas mileage.
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McyMike
Dodge Dakota
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3/19/2004
15:00:05
| RE: Cam help
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That what I suspected. I'm running 265/75/16 (about 2.5 inches taller than stock). At 70 mph I'm taching about 1900 RPM. At that RPM I think I'm just outside the engines torque zone resulting in less MPG. What it cost to both difs for setup and hardware?
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Pittdawg
Dodge Dakota
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3/19/2004
16:27:12
| RE: Cam help
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Donkey...the perfect recipe for low end torque is the ho cams and fastman true 68mm tb, keep your stock intake manifold as that is geared towards low end torque and the ho manifold is more for upper rpm hp. I did the ho cam swap and had some nice gains but as mentioned above nothing spectacular, however once i added the fastman 68mm tb gains were quite noticeable, impressive even. A 70mm tb may add slightly more hp but if lowend torque is what you're looking for definately stick with the fastman 68mm.
H.O. cams + fastman tb= great low end torque.
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b1llyw
GenII
3/19/2004
16:29:03
| RE: Cam help
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The F&B will add more torque than the Fastman piece, and more top end. You get what you pay for.
Bill White - KRC Performance
'95 CC 4x2, SLT - 408 is done, truck isn't
'03 Neon R/T - No mods...yet
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Hmm
Dodge Dakota
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3/19/2004
16:35:19
|  RE: Cam help
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b1llyw, How much more?
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jaggy
GenIII
3/19/2004
17:30:54
| RE: Cam help
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MCYMike,
I am running the same tires, and 4.10's...My mileage increased both highway and city. about 2mpg city. maybe 3-5 highway ( haven't done alot of freway driving.
I would recomend the 4.56's I wish I had done them instead.
Thanks for the heads up B1llyw. That was my plan TB and then a PCM flash. Would you say headers are worth it or not?
If so what ones do you recomend?
Pittdawg, I was reading the thread on the V8 Board about the intake, I got the impresion that the 04 HO intake would help out too. for less than $100 what do you think?
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b1llyw
GenII
3/19/2004
18:22:39
| RE: Cam help
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Headers don't seem to be a big gainer on the 4.7.
Bill White - KRC Performance
'95 CC 4x2, SLT - 408 is done, truck isn't
'03 Neon R/T - No mods...yet
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Pittdawg
Dodge Dakota
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3/19/2004
19:56:11
| RE: Cam help
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Jaggy---
Too soon to tell, I just installed the 04 manifold the other day. The reason I installed it was when I used to have a fastman tb i got a terrible pedal vibration, apparently a relatively small percentage of us 4.7 guys experienced this with an upgraded tb (whether it was fastman or f&b). Rumor has it the newer manifold design was in response to even fewer 4.7's having a slight pedal vibration in completely stock trim. The fastman gave me quite a performance gain though and i wanted it back, so now i have an 04 and a true 68mm tb on my dak, only 35 miles though. Before, with my old manifold and fastman tb it took about 500 or so miles for the computer to adjust. I experienced great gains in low end torque and slight gains in the upper rpms as well. Although, difficult, after 500 miles or so, I will try and see if now with the fastman and new manifold if the gains appear to be any greater, keeping in mind this is all butt-dyno and not accurate or scientific at all. Logic tells me though it certainly woudln't perform worse then the pre-03 regular manifold, the fact they now use it on both the regular 4.7 and h.o. 4.7 supports such an understanding. Purely speculation, but I suspect the new manifold accomplishes two things: 1) reduced pedal vibration 2) geared towards mid range power. I say this because it is clear the pre-03 manifold was geared towards low end torque (long runners)and the 02 h.o. intake was geared towards upper rpm hp (short runners), although i havent dissected the new manifold i believe you would see medium length runners, striking a better balance and thus this explaines how both a standard and h.o. 4.7 could benefit from the new manifold. I am one of the very few who has argued from the beginning that the 02 h.o. manifold was not such a great design as it gave up significant low end torque for a gain only in the highest of rpms, it's short lived (only one year long) history and early demise only supports my argument.
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Beekota
Dodge Dakota
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3/20/2004
09:19:17
| RE: Cam help
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Donkey
Headers are crap Cost me $580.00 to find out,I run the ASE chip in my 4.7L,Heads are the same 63cc now the intake valve springs on the HO are stiffer,I thank after 2002 the 4.7 uses the same intake manifold for both engines,I moved the heater hoses away from the TB and do run the F&B 70mm TB with a 180 thermostat.As for the cams being missed boxed that been going on for over two years,they droped one of my cams and chip it and we waited for over three months and four cams to get the right number and Marty at KRC did the install,and the gear I run I'll keep that to myself.
tom
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Donkey
Dodge Dakota
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3/20/2004
19:35:34
| RE: Cam help
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Gave me some good ideas. A 70 mm TB, why did you choose that one? And what does the 180 thermostat do?
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